sub bass and kick sidechain question
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:12 PM   #1
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sub bass and kick sidechain question

This might be a very silly question. But if I highcut my sub bass to 65 hertz and then lowcut my kick also to 65 hertz. Do i still need to sidechain my kick to the sub bass as technically they're not clashing frequencies? I understand i need to sidechain my kick to the lead bass because the frequencies clash but im just curious about the sub bass.

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Old 06-10-2018, 03:52 PM   #2
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

No, the whole point of sidechaining is to keep the volumes levelled.. eg. so you don't get twice the volume when your sub and kick hit simultaneously. If they don't clash, there's no real need for that. You may still want to use it as a creative effect to have that pumping effect, just like you may want to leave a frequency clash in if it sounds cool. I do that a lot.. I don't always mind if sounds clash or mask each other.
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Old 06-10-2018, 04:07 PM   #3
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

Things don't work like that. The sub tone is a single frequency, you can't cut it. Cutting sine sub just causes phasing and reduces the volume.

Sidechaining the sub depends on the case, same as lowcutting your kick.

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Old 06-10-2018, 04:11 PM   #4
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

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Originally Posted by localspace View Post
No, the whole point of sidechaining is to keep the volumes levelled.. eg. so you don't get twice the volume when your sub and kick hit simultaneously. If they don't clash, there's no real need for that.
Not clashing (= filling same frequencies too prominently) doesn't mean the level would stay the same.

Last edited by -Agu-; 07-10-2018 at 01:13 PM..

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Old 06-10-2018, 04:25 PM   #5
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

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Originally Posted by QwertyGabi View Post
This might be a very silly question. But if I highcut my sub bass to 65 hertz and then lowcut my kick also to 65 hertz. Do i still need to sidechain my kick to the sub bass as technically they're not clashing frequencies? I understand i need to sidechain my kick to the lead bass because the frequencies clash but im just curious about the sub bass.
if the frequencies do not clash then there is no need to SC compress, but you might decide you want to for creative reasons.

with those cutoffs though you might still get phase issues at and around the 65Hz area, since filters do not typically cut very sharp, they will usually roll off at 6/12/24dB per octave. there are filters that do cut at ridiculously steep rolloffs, such as rubberfilter (384dB/oct), but they dont really sound very nice in most peoples opinion.

anyway, back on point. SC compression, when used as a tool to make room in the mix, is only necessary when frequencies are clashing, so sometimes you can have overlapping bass and kick frequencies but the two do not play at the same time anywhere in the track, so no need for EQ or SC compression.
you can also help in the writing stage by choosing and creating sounds that do not overlap.

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Old 06-10-2018, 06:06 PM   #6
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

OP, if you told us a bit more about what you're making, we might be able to give you some more pointed answers. For instance, if you're making house or any of it's derivatives, you sidechain everything except the snare. Full stop, doesn't matter what's going on in the mix.
But then with techno, you might never sidechain anything and just let it be a mess.

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Old 07-10-2018, 11:53 AM   #7
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

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Originally Posted by White Noise View Post
OP, if you told us a bit more about what you're making, we might be able to give you some more pointed answers. For instance, if you're making house or any of it's derivatives, you sidechain everything except the snare. Full stop, doesn't matter what's going on in the mix.
But then with techno, you might never sidechain anything and just let it be a mess.
i primarily make drum and bass
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:50 PM   #8
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

My opinion is sidechaining bass to the kick is almost always cool, it creates nice engaging action. Heck, sidechaining everything to the kick is cool.

In your case, you certainly don't need to because of the hp lp you're doing, but it will probably sound cool if you do.

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Old 07-10-2018, 01:09 PM   #9
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

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Originally Posted by Tsachi View Post
My opinion is sidechaining bass to the kick is almost always cool, it creates nice engaging action. Heck, sidechaining everything to the kick is cool.

In your case, you certainly don't need to because of the hp lp you're doing, but it will probably sound cool if you do.
i used to avoid the SC compression method and just mix frequencies instead. i didnt think i wanted unnecessary pumping in my tracks. then one day i was forced to try it because i wanted to keep my kick and bass but they were fighting for space. i was surprised at how it added "vibe" to the track and i really liked the pumping effect. from that day i changed my opinion and now use it a lot more, not just when it "needs" it.

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Old 07-10-2018, 01:23 PM   #10
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

What goes so wrong in this thread is that people are discussing Bass, while OP is talking about separate Sub, which is just 1 harmonic. You can't cut a single tone in half with EQ. Nothing gets cut away in that process, the level of that single frequency just goes down and phase gets messed up.

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Old 07-10-2018, 02:07 PM   #11
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

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Originally Posted by -Agu- View Post
What goes so wrong in this thread is that people are discussing Bass, while OP is talking about separate Sub, which is just 1 harmonic. You can't cut a single tone in half with EQ. Nothing gets cut away in that process, the level of that single frequency just goes down and phase gets messed up.
good point. i missed that minor detail that makes all the difference. i assume if op has low passed to 65Hz then there were some harmonics above that too.
i think the information shared in the replies is still valid though and will still help op understand what SC compression is all about.

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if agu is correct and you are talking about a single harmonic then there is usually no need to low pass it. you might find that the kick doesnt go below 65Hz either, might be worth getting a frequency analyzer if you dont have one. i highly recommend [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
its free and its awesome.

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Old 07-10-2018, 07:46 PM   #12
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

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Originally Posted by -Agu- View Post
What goes so wrong in this thread is that people are discussing Bass, while OP is talking about separate Sub, which is just 1 harmonic. You can't cut a single tone in half with EQ. Nothing gets cut away in that process, the level of that single frequency just goes down and phase gets messed up.
Im curious, how does doing so impact phase?

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Old 07-10-2018, 08:29 PM   #13
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Re: sub bass and kick sidechain question

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Originally Posted by liquid_air View Post
I’m curious, how does doing so impact phase?
most filters shift the phase around the cutoff. how much it shifts the phase depends on the filter. there are linear phase filters that do not do this, but imo they sound shit when used like that.

the phase shift wouldnt be a problem though if the sub is the only thing playing in that space at that time. but its only not a problem until it is.


edit:
i actually think linear phase filters might shift the phase still, but evenly across the spectrum. not 100% on that though

Last edited by Parricide; 07-10-2018 at 08:40 PM..

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