Playing two chords simultaneously
You are Unregistered, please register to gain Full access.    
Advertisements


Music Theory & Composition Questions & comments about composition, arrangement, and music theory. Music rules and how to follow or break them.

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 21-05-2013, 09:53 AM   #1
Dippshoe
cunt
Dippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MC
Dippshoe's Avatar
In an abandoned cave covered by mist in the depths of Jotunheimen.
Age: 26
Posts: 1,432
MC Status: 12810
Thanks: 195
Thanked 256 Times in 210 Posts
Playing two chords simultaneously

So, today I've been playing around with session view in Ableton for the frist time in a very long time. And I had forgot how fun it was.
As I was playing around, I "accidently" played two different chord progressions at the same time, and from what I've picked up on music theory this would out of the book not be ok.
But suprisingly it sounded really harmonic and good.

So I was wondering if anyone of you had experience with the same thing?`
I've read that these chords are called "polychords" and people say that the human brain will only be able to focus on one tonic at a time, therefore this should theorteical sound bad.

What is your thoughts on this?

inb4 fuck music theory, go with what sounds good.
Cause yea, I'm going with it. I'm just curious about your thoughts around this.

Advertisements


------------------

'Don't be an idiot.' Changed my life.
-Dwight Schrute.
Dippshoe is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Dippshoe
Son of Akira (24-05-2013)
Old 21-05-2013, 10:16 AM   #2
Benwaa
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

I'm intrigued, mainly because my music theory isn't great and needs drastically improving. What's the chord progression by the way?
  Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Benwaa
MaLm (22-05-2013)
Old 21-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #3
Beagz
Soundwave Mangler
Beagz has a brilliant futureBeagz has a brilliant futureBeagz has a brilliant futureBeagz has a brilliant futureBeagz has a brilliant futureBeagz has a brilliant futureBeagz has a brilliant futureBeagz has a brilliant futureBeagz has a brilliant futureBeagz has a brilliant futureBeagz has a brilliant future
Beagz's Avatar
Sydney
Age: 6
Posts: 198
MC Status: 1560
Thanks: 28
Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

Are the two chords in the same octave?

If not then it could theoretically be one big chord, there's no real limit on how many notes is in a chord so if the keys line up then it could just be some weird unusual 10note chord and not necessarily two different chords.

I could be completely wrong seeing as i haven't done much theory.
Beagz is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2013, 10:41 AM   #4
Dippshoe
cunt
Dippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MC
Dippshoe's Avatar
In an abandoned cave covered by mist in the depths of Jotunheimen.
Age: 26
Posts: 1,432
MC Status: 12810
Thanks: 195
Thanked 256 Times in 210 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

Both instrument is playing a four chord progression.

The piano is Playing
Bm
A
F#m
F#m

The cello is playing
C#m
D
C#m aug5 (C#, E, A)
C#m aug5 (C#, E, A)

Those two last chords on the cello I found with some expermintation, really.

------------------

'Don't be an idiot.' Changed my life.
-Dwight Schrute.
Dippshoe is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2013, 12:08 PM   #5
Benwaa
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

Well from what little I know, more through harmonic DJ mixing, is that Bm and C#m are harmonically compatible keys, likewise with D and A major, I'm not sure about the last one but ill guess that too, Ok granted I'm talking about keys here not chords but maybe that would explain it? I dunno, just a thought
  Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Benwaa
Son of Akira (24-05-2013)
Old 21-05-2013, 12:45 PM   #6
Dippshoe
cunt
Dippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MC
Dippshoe's Avatar
In an abandoned cave covered by mist in the depths of Jotunheimen.
Age: 26
Posts: 1,432
MC Status: 12810
Thanks: 195
Thanked 256 Times in 210 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

That's interesting.
Considering chords and keys have alot in common, this may be the explanation indeed.

------------------

'Don't be an idiot.' Changed my life.
-Dwight Schrute.
Dippshoe is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2013, 12:49 PM   #7
Spiritos
Ghostly
Spiritos has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritos has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritos has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritos has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritos has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritos has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritos has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritos has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritos has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritos has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritos has a reputation beyond repute
Spiritos's Avatar
Amsterdam
Age: 42
Posts: 603
MC Status: 7010
Thanks: 73
Thanked 140 Times in 116 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

The only thing that ever matters when playing chords is that they're in the same key and they are... So key is key here

However to give some extra food for thought.. there are situations when you do can play out of key. That's called a dissonant. You will recognise this immediately as it creates a distinct tension in the sound. This can be usefull to create a bridge or transition in a song.

------------------
Win8.1 64x/Sonar X3/Live 9/Steinberg UR44/Roland HP 235/Edirol PCR-800/Eastman AC 222/Washburn D12/Behringer BCF2000 & BCF2000/Korg Nanopad 2/Focusrite VRM Box/AT2020/2xB5/Sennheiser E 825s/Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro 250/Tannoy 502
Spiritos is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2013, 07:01 PM   #8
MK300
Minor Glitch
MK300 will become famous soon enough
Ottawa
Posts: 36
MC Status: 60
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Icon7 Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

Sounds like polychords!
Look for "Piano and Guitar Harmony Lesson: Polychords and Polychordism" on youtube.
It might help you out.
MK300 is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2013, 07:06 PM   #9
PROton42
IDMf Artist
PROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MC
PROton42's Avatar
Posts: 10,277
MC Status: 34650
Thanks: 7,928
Thanked 4,126 Times in 2,688 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

I would imagine that so long as you are mindful of your accidentals and which notes argue with each other too much, that it's entirely possible to play two progressions at the same time. This is actually done very often with melodies. Melodies which take on different progressions than the rhythmic sections can stand out and offer insight to future progressions and conversational back and forth between instrumentation. It is all a part of the magical dance between tension and resolve.

------------------
PROton42 is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to PROton42
Son of Akira (24-05-2013)
Old 21-05-2013, 08:32 PM   #10
Exit_inrovert
Minor Glitch
Exit_inrovert is just really niceExit_inrovert is just really niceExit_inrovert is just really niceExit_inrovert is just really nice
Exit_inrovert's Avatar
Dublin
Posts: 40
MC Status: 356
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dippshoe View Post
Both instrument is playing a four chord progression.

The piano is Playing
Bm
A
F#m
F#m

The cello is playing
C#m
D
C#m aug5 (C#, E, A)
C#m aug5 (C#, E, A)

Those two last chords on the cello I found with some expermintation, really.
Two chords being played at the same time are polychords. They are used mainly in 20th century classical music and jazz after the 1960s. It's very rare to hear them in electronic music as the majority of them create a lot of dissonance but the ones you have described are the least dissonant.

Bm+C#m = B, D, F# + C#, E, F# if you take the intervals from Bm you get: Root, minor 3rd, 5th, 9th, 11th and 5th again this creates a Bm11 chord.

I have done the same for all the other chords without going in to the intervallic break down

A+D= Amaj7(add4)

F#m C#min(Aug5) is really just like an F#min7 the notes for an F#min7 are F# A C# E


Another nice one is two major triads a tone away from each other for example Cmaj and Dmaj sound very nice together.
Exit_inrovert is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2013, 08:50 PM   #11
Dippshoe
cunt
Dippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MC
Dippshoe's Avatar
In an abandoned cave covered by mist in the depths of Jotunheimen.
Age: 26
Posts: 1,432
MC Status: 12810
Thanks: 195
Thanked 256 Times in 210 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit_inrovert View Post
Two chords being played at the same time are polychords. They are used mainly in 20th century classical music and jazz after the 1960s. It's very rare to hear them in electronic music as the majority of them create a lot of dissonance but the ones you have described are the least dissonant.

Bm+C#m = B, D, F# + C#, E, F# if you take the intervals from Bm you get: Root, minor 3rd, 5th, 9th, 11th and 5th again this creates a Bm11 chord.

I have done the same for all the other chords without going in to the intervallic break down

A+D= Amaj7(add4)

F#m C#min(Aug5) is really just like an F#min7 the notes for an F#min7 are F# A C# E


Another nice one is two major triads a tone away from each other for example Cmaj and Dmaj sound very nice together.
I was rather suprised by how good it sounded together considering it was a mistake to play the progressions together.
Thanks for the post, you narrowed it all down pretty good

------------------

'Don't be an idiot.' Changed my life.
-Dwight Schrute.
Dippshoe is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2013, 12:06 PM   #12
Lug
Savage Mad Cunt
Lug is a savage MCLug is a savage MCLug is a savage MCLug is a savage MCLug is a savage MCLug is a savage MCLug is a savage MCLug is a savage MCLug is a savage MCLug is a savage MCLug is a savage MC
Lug's Avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 7,386
MC Status: 80997030
Thanks: 5,237
Thanked 4,136 Times in 2,684 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

already said but, yeah, as long as the chords are in the same key, it could be seen as just a chord enrichment. It's fun to think of it as two chords played on top of each other though, and I like it for playing melodies.

I know stravinsky liked to write parts where two different tonalities are played one on top of the other (I hear it a lot in Petrushka) and a bit off Bartok's "mikrokosmos" is basically the black keys of the piano on top of arpeggios played on the white keys : [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]

Last edited by Lug; 22-05-2013 at 12:10 PM..
Lug is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Lug
Son of Akira (24-05-2013)
Old 23-05-2013, 08:53 AM   #13
RooElectronic
Minor Glitch
RooElectronic has a spectacular aura aboutRooElectronic has a spectacular aura about
London
Posts: 49
MC Status: 160
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

Is the cello being played in chords or just playing singular notes? Because additional instruments can be used to outline the harmony by playing notes other than the tonic. The C# could maybe be regarded as an added 9th on top of the Bm, the D a perfect 4th above the A and the C# landing on a 5th above the F#, all of which make harmonic sense. Generally chords that exist outside of triads and including inversions and stuff sound bigger and more 'musical'. Whether you intended it or not, if it sounds good then you're doing it right haha! Music shouldn't be about stressing the theory to the point where its mathematical, music is about what sounds good and what agrees with the ear
RooElectronic is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2013, 12:18 PM   #14
Dippshoe
cunt
Dippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MCDippshoe is a savage MC
Dippshoe's Avatar
In an abandoned cave covered by mist in the depths of Jotunheimen.
Age: 26
Posts: 1,432
MC Status: 12810
Thanks: 195
Thanked 256 Times in 210 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by RooElectronic View Post
Is the cello being played in chords or just playing singular notes? Because additional instruments can be used to outline the harmony by playing notes other than the tonic. The C# could maybe be regarded as an added 9th on top of the Bm, the D a perfect 4th above the A and the C# landing on a 5th above the F#, all of which make harmonic sense. Generally chords that exist outside of triads and including inversions and stuff sound bigger and more 'musical'. Whether you intended it or not, if it sounds good then you're doing it right haha! Music shouldn't be about stressing the theory to the point where its mathematical, music is about what sounds good and what agrees with the ear
The cello is playing chords, indeed.

------------------

'Don't be an idiot.' Changed my life.
-Dwight Schrute.
Dippshoe is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2013, 04:51 PM   #15
Nystagmus
Savage Mad Cunt
Nystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MC
Nystagmus's Avatar
Planet Earth; 2017 AD.
Posts: 3,781
MC Status: 65510
Thanks: 3,367
Thanked 1,310 Times in 987 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

If you start a tune with a synth that is already 2 or more notes per instance, then as soon as you start playing more than one key, it will be a chord of sorts. Think of 90s Rave Chords as an oversimplification of this. Some synth sounds that are described as having a nice "timbre" are really nothing more than a chord that has been tweaked to sound a bit like a single heavy thick note. As soon as a modern composer learns how to use those regularly, they will probably notice that technically "dissonance" should be interupting the flow of such sounds all over the place.

But that's just not the case. Old-fashioned consonnance/dissonance discussions fall all over themselves in failure when it comes to deeper synthesis like the stuff many on this site do. Probably has something to do with the fact that those ideas were invented decades or centuries? before modern synthesis and advanced multitrack mixing, and certainly before the two of them combined in the modern sophisticated VST(i) DAW.

Yeah I know this is kind of just my own take on these things, but I use multitone synth sounds constanty since 1993 and worrying about dissonance never stopped me from using a note made of minor chords to mix within a major composition or vice-versa. It's just irrelevant at the timbre level. Some of the best classic tunes exploit the inherent ambiguity of such thick synth sounds and just flow with it.


Something to consider: Even if the notes do ever clash, if the tension only happens for a brief moment, it's experience as intrigue and not dissonance. Anybody who ever had a bassline that went back and forth between C and E flat and even G flat during a Major C Chord knows this. Many excellent basslines have done this time after time because it's not just the values, but the durations and the timings and of course the timbre.


So yeah, I sound conceited in this thread perhaps, but if I don't try to explain it as I know it, then I would just be complying with the mainstream mythology.

If you don't believe me, study your favorite thick synth solos and stabs on a spectrum analyser and FFT to see the frequencies in action. With the right measuring gear, you can verify that some notes really are indistinguisable from chords in terms of structure, but it's how they are used in parallel or not that really separates them as "notes". Or come at this from another angle... Sample ANY chord and then use it as an instrument in a tune while harmonizing with it. Harmony is still possible with and without accidentals and without just resorting to unisons. And if you exploit filter and synth automation capabilites you gain another dimension by which to make the sounds "fit" even if they "don't fit together".


I am somewhat adamant about this because it's an opportunity to break down the type of myths that are propagated by people who know more about classical, and pianos and maybe rock and roll, than synths and multitrack mixing on a computer and the kinds of mega-hit artists and tunes who are way beyond the petty textbook theory.


Last but not least, some dissonance/consonance is ambiguous simply by virtue of a pitch bend or portamento of sorts. It's pretty much a moving target. Is it consonant? Is it dissonant? Who knows... we don't even know which "pitch" it is yet because it's moving. By the time a person's mind has a grasp on it's settled pitch, it's already moved from where it was before while blending with other stable and astable tones. That's the magic of electronic music! Mindgames that DONT HURT! All I can say is PLEASE RELEASE BITWIG SOON...

Peace

Last edited by Nystagmus; 25-05-2013 at 05:00 PM..
Nystagmus is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2013, 05:30 AM   #16
Son of Akira
IDMf Artist
Son of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MC
Son of Akira's Avatar
over yonder, behind them old railroad tracks
Posts: 1,287
MC Status: 47684970
Thanks: 318
Thanked 363 Times in 259 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

the post above threw a nerdrage monkey wrench into my big plans and now I don't feel like writing up what I was planning to but hopefully this will have some value on it's own; if not i'll write something later:






I was examining the chords/chord progression in different voicings to show different ideas but then just laid them all out as if it was a track. The hybrid phrase/pedal figure thing in the second picture is repeated throughout, shown by the gray midi notes in the first picutre.

Last edited by Son of Akira; 26-05-2013 at 05:36 AM..

------------------
Son of Akira is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2013, 05:38 AM   #17
Son of Akira
IDMf Artist
Son of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MCSon of Akira is a savage MC
Son of Akira's Avatar
over yonder, behind them old railroad tracks
Posts: 1,287
MC Status: 47684970
Thanks: 318
Thanked 363 Times in 259 Posts
Re: Playing two chords simultaneously

p.s. are u kidding me photobucket? the first pic is supposed to blow so you can actually, like, you know, see it. in fact that's the entire point

p.p.s. sonofabitch is it the forum that's minimizing the sizze?


p.p.p.s whatev


Last edited by Son of Akira; 26-05-2013 at 07:14 AM..

Advertisements


------------------
Son of Akira is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gamers, what are you playing? o-dio Technology & Lifestyle 13010 Yesterday 07:15 PM
What are you playing right now? jeniferwilson The Side Room 25 22-09-2012 08:17 PM
(Trancy Something or Another) Just Playing Around With Chords With Fm8 _Mystik_ Listening Booth 19 10-07-2012 06:41 PM
Ableton: How do you record multiple audio clips simultaneously? (my mind is MELTING!) Wave Mekanix Workstation Center 5 21-03-2012 01:55 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:31 AM.


Electronic Music Forums

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.