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Old 23-01-2018, 07:33 AM   #61
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

Some of us should just get together and straight up buy the site from Stu.

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Old 23-01-2018, 11:47 AM   #62
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

I think the best for us would be to use the funding from one release to put out the next, on a case by case basis.

Btw, if anyone has an Ep, hit us up...

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Old 23-01-2018, 12:19 PM   #63
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

I'm late to the party and quoting bits out of order for thematic reasons... and sorry it's super long... late to the party etc...

Short version is that under the current tech stack we're really hamstrung with what we can do. If we want to develop the community around the label, or make changes and stuff, we need to update / refresh / replace...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oly View Post
Some of us should just get together and straight up buy the site from Stu.
It's not a crazy idea... but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brb View Post
What are the actual costs of distribution? Can't most of them be bypassed with a little sneaky coordination?
Whatever the cost, before all of that we'd have to find $100USD per month for hosting for the current server. But I think realistically, we'd want to budget at least $200 a month which is waaaay the amount I could contribute personally. I've never been a fan of any kind of paid subscription beyond voluntary donations. But if a few lifers matched me we could be in a more flexible position...

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Originally Posted by brb View Post
Maybe I just have romantic notions of underground music but do we need to spend actual money on, like, actual distribution? Who would we be looking to reach that way? Is there much potential benefit to our kinds of music being available on such platforms?
The benefit is presenting the catalogue on a medium that people use to consume music today. Yes we can download stuff ourselves. But a lot of people don't consume music that way. I think investment in this is well worth it. But personally, I'd like to see our existing platform be modernised before going down that route.

Also, I think modernity would give us a little wriggle room regarding resource requirements and if we scale a few things back and refine valuable features, we could save a bit of cash on the monthtlies. And if anyone out there is good with load balancing we could possibly move to a scaleable VPS setup.

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I believe Jaded was working through that until our disagreement brought that to a swift halt.
Not a disagreement, just some of us (#metoo) lacking maturity or grace, and some with other shit causing static.

I was being a dick.
Fiddy was being a dick.
You were being a dick.

So I took a week off (told one of you, not all, my mistake) and when I came back was accused of spying/snooping/whatevs. So I handed shit off and nuked my keys so I had no more access. I try to be honest and trustworthy and, even if I am a bit of a dick, I genuinely want to do what I can to make the best of our little corner for fruit and nut bars... Sometimes that means adjusting the fruit so the nuts can breathe.

We've been pretty amicable about the thing. I'm generally happy and content and dislike contributing negative vibes is all.

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Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
Indeed, the front page, sidebar, and topbar(?)/dropdown, perhaps even the colour scheme and fonts, all need looking at and refreshing.
Yes. It's not so simple with current setup. My shitty little changes were incredibly laborious to make (and shit).
(Btw do you guys still have some banner thingomy?)

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Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
We're probably down to a number where the hardcore few left here should just form the council of IDMf and remake this place however they see fit.
Don't take that as a jibe, I'm semi-serious.
Honestly, if we wanted to modernise the interface we either have to pay for an upgrade to current system or choose an alternative. I'd go with the latter as there are better forum / content systems available today in my opinion.

It's not a jibe and warrants further discussion.

Example:
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Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
I've been saying for years that we need some kind of scrolling banner on the front page that we can update with that kind of info aswell as any other announcements.
...
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Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
We don't have anywhere near enough resources to get that stuff done any time soon, unfortunately.
It's easily a weekends work, if not more.
In current system, I'd wager more for sure. But in other systems, front end work to make it function is maybe half an hour. Admin / backend to make it dynamic, maybe an hour or two depending on the platform.

And that's what's frustrating because there's a lot of little bits where someone could raise a ticket and it should take a few lines of code and commit, push, rebase to fix.

If you remember the label catalogue I put up on my server (not blog replacement), that was about four hours work to configure from a blank slate with a modern framework... The longest part of the process in putting it online was uploading the back catalogue.

I'd started a demo / comp upload feture and have a whole spec for features for managing all label / project related stuff. Some of the notes are still in the mod cunts unless Fiddy got wasted and started playing our favourite Niel Diamond songs and deleted that shit

Still got all the code for the stuff I was developing. It's all in repos, can give anyone access.

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Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
Web skills is an area that we need more help with tbh.
I'm not a "shit hot programmer" but I'm a decent developer and I've been transitioning more into lead roles in the last few years. More of a front ender as time progresses. But can provision dev environments and setup test data and stuff and I know there's a few guys with back-end / server admin skills you could reach out to.

I think if you want to make any meaningful changes, you need a collaborative development environment where people can contribute little bits here and there and someone who can review and manage code release.

And you need a project plan...

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Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
What we need is someone who finds this stuff fun and simple.
Ideally with previous vbulletin experience.
I think VB is a big hurdle to get participation. I have setup a VCS for the forum code with the intention of creating a dev environment template for exactly this reason. But the current platform makes collaboration next to impossible because [insert technical shit here].

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Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
I can't give you any info on why Stu (the owner) has decided to renew but not upgrade the site for several years.
I guess he just doesn't see the point if he makes no return.
I guess it's a nice gesture that he renews at all tbh, because this place could easily go offline one day and never return.
Just life man. I haven't been in touch with him in years but I know he's doing his own thing for work now and two kids and not much time for stuff like this.

I know that if we went to him with a plan and people to do it (whatever it is) he'd certainly assist by flicking whatever switches needed to make it possible.

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Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
You're right that we could do with much easier to find links that take people to the musical output and other related IDMf pages and social crap.
It's been a topic of much confusion since year one. In the beginning we were branching out every sub-forum and group and feature and responding to everyone's wants and needs and so it's a bit of a hot mess... Over the years mod cunts have had many discussions about it and a decade later, they have a pretty good idea of where to trim the fat.

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Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
With that said, we really need to update the platform this place is running on and go mobile too.
Cache this puppy to static pages and archive.
Release new forum / content system for the win.
I'd say trim the fat and keep it simple. Less sub-forums, possibly integrate blog / label site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
Business model.
Well, I don't think this is a business tbh.
It certainly isn't to me anyway.
It's a platform for aspiring musicians to get a helping hand with production skills and maybe their first leg-up into releasing music.
Business / project / platform. All words for a continuous and ongoing effort to do something.

In terms of the platform, my opinion is delete that disease ridden old label blog and start fresh. Even if it's with the theme I made which Fid thought was shit. Also, I have all of the back catalogue copy and credits and a backup of the database after RFJ had populated it with all the artist info.

Then I would consider change to a different forum system and shuttering this. Obviously, to do that you'd need some skills and I would think better to have a number of people. And for some of us who want to learn about web dev / design, could be a good opportunity to learn something provided there's some experienced people managing the code...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
We have recently decided that the idea of the guys who run the site and the guys running the label side of things should no longer be mutually exclusive.
Agreed.

I've always thought the label should be more egalitarian and more people should have a chance to contribute and possibly run projects.

I think Auto has been an amazing addition in that regard and his ideas and enthusiasm are great. But the challenge is how do we facilitate more collaboration without making someone a mod? We can setup a new user level but honestly, I don't think that VB's a good platform for project collaboration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
The number of mods we've had come and go should give you some indication of how much fun that is.
Seriously? Being an IDMf mod is awesome. Never queue, drink cards, VIP areas and fancy fucking champagne every day. How is that not awesome? Shit man, I have to buy drinks now... Do you know how expensive drinks are? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit....
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:14 PM   #64
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

Fresh start with same domain name. New format, new everything, oh well - we lose the old threads.
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Old 23-01-2018, 09:22 PM   #65
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

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I think the best for us would be to use the funding from one release to put out the next, on a case by case basis.

Btw, if anyone has an Ep, hit us up...
My 2018 mission statement ...

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Old 24-01-2018, 04:28 AM   #66
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

I'm a tad confused now, were we not talking about the Net Label. The forum itself is working o.k. The Net Label site is not, as admin can't get into it, so if people go looking into the label and find the site, it doesn't really look good on the label.

Change the name of the label to something like " InDeMniFy Music " Which kind of has a nice ring to it, but still keeps the forum ID. Use DistroKid, which appears to be a good option for the price, release singles from the compilations, any monies returned can be used to upgrade the label till it's on it's feet.

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Old 24-01-2018, 04:50 AM   #67
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sleaze View Post
I'm a tad confused now, were we not talking about the Net Label. The forum itself is working o.k. The Net Label site is not, as admin can't get into it, so if people go looking into the label and find the site, it doesn't really look good on the label.
Whoever told you that is telling tales or has a shot memory. All current admins have admin access to the label blog (I gave it to them) and, assuming they haven’t removed me, so do I. Point is, they have access to the blog and it’s possible for them to manage spam and update everything. It just hasn’t been done since I removed myself.

I was also mostly done with a replacement site (replicating current features only) but sadly only one other mod was interested in contributing feedback or content until there was a disagreement giving opportunity to hang shit on something. And like I said, code’s still there and ready to go.

The main reason so little progress is made is down to one or two people not being able to check their egos and shitting on everyone else’s efforts. And over the years I’ve seen this kill numerous mods’ enthusiasm to contribute / be involved in change.

Basically saying things like “IDMf is all of you” while believing / acting like “IDMf is mine.”

And I’m not saying this to hang shit. It’s just a fact that until everyone on the team puts the community first and learns to cooperate and participate constructively, nothing will really change. There’s nothing to encourage people with skills to lend them...
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Old 24-01-2018, 04:53 AM   #68
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

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Originally Posted by Oatbag View Post
Fresh start with same domain name. New format, new everything, oh well - we lose the old threads.
Nah, we can archive it all so current site is still available to view.

And if such a change occurs then implement a username claim so existing members can keep their identities on new platform.
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Old 24-01-2018, 06:14 AM   #69
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

How about advert banners or something to fund the net label/ buying the domain etc?
Edit: i am probably not the first to have thought about it, just curious.
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Old 24-01-2018, 09:25 AM   #70
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

If anyone's withholding work that they've already put the effort into completing for the forum but wont release it to the community for some personal beef reason, then I suggest it's them that needs to check their ego.
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Old 24-01-2018, 09:27 AM   #71
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

How much do you all think IDMf is worth btw, just out of interest?
How much do you guys think is worth investing as a total to keep this going?
How much money are you willing to invest without expecting ANY return whatsoever?
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Old 24-01-2018, 11:02 AM   #72
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

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If anyone's withholding work that they've already put the effort into completing for the forum but wont release it to the community for some personal beef reason, then I suggest it's them that needs to check their ego.
Mate, I’m nothing but a glorified SPAM cleaner. I’m pretty self aware dude. I know what I’m like.

Try telling it like it was lol (aka reality): I extended the olive branch to you almost immediately. From memory it was “I’m big enough to admit when I’m being a dick and I hope you can too.” You never replied.

I said something similar to Fid. He replied, we talked it out and apologised to each other for being dicks. I told him I got triggered. He said he had some shit going on in life... and it made sense because his behaviour was so out of character and we contemplated what to do next... was pretty contrite about the fact that I knew I was out of order and needed to cool off to anyone who spoke to me about that situation.

As for withholding anything, you’re living in fantasy land. You paint it like I dropped the mike and left the building. In reality, I dropped the mike, cleaned up after myself and then quit the main stage for the side room...

I set Fid up with some scripts for syncing images (all the broken ones that I fixed) so that he could update them or add new ones as required (pretty sure it’s in our Mod Dropbox unless he’s removed it, go look). I gave you and Roo admin access to the blogs etc and so on. As for the label catalogue, I organised all of the images and files and all of the content data and track lists are also in CSV files in the Dropbox too. Have you even looked? They’re also still accessible through the server I set up for private catalogue storage. There’s a thread in mod cunts, maybe read it.

The only thing I removed was the staging for the new label site as it was stored on IDMf server so removed for security reasons.

Everyone’s been pretty amicable. Have been in touch with Roo, RFJ and Tim (sorry Tim been meaning to get back to you just been so busy) numerous times and I think they’d agree I’ve got nothing but love for the community and am always available to assist / advise / support in any way I can. If you’d bothered to engage me, you’d know that.

And you’ve repeatedly not engaged when I gave you advice and said “let me know if you need anything.” Even deleted a few posts in Suggestions & FB where I called you out on it (as you probably will with this one).

If you want access to any of the assets I’ve produced, you just need to ask.

So yeah, maybe get over yourself and consider how your personal conduct contributes to the atmosphere... because that one was 33.333333333333333333% on you mate... and you’re the only one who has beef with anyone... and we’ve all given you subtle and not so hints about it over the years

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How much do you all think IDMf is worth btw, just out of interest?
How much do you guys think is worth investing as a total to keep this going?
How much money are you willing to invest without expecting ANY return whatsoever?
Absolutely worth it. One of the few places I know where I can find like minded people who are interested in the same kooky weird shit I am. I’ve already told you guys my personal limit in MC and it still stands... if we wanna do anything to move it forwards. You’re the admin now, it’s up to you.
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Old 24-01-2018, 02:21 PM   #73
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

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How much do you all think IDMf is worth btw, just out of interest?
How much do you guys think is worth investing as a total to keep this going?
How much money are you willing to invest without expecting ANY return whatsoever?
From a financial point of view, it seems unlikely that anyone would be interested in purchasing the rights to the label. So unless some wealthy Maecenas suddenly shows up, throwing money around, the label is practically worthless.

Investing in a worthless business might increase its value of course, but unless someone is willing to put in a lot of hard work, it'll most likely just to be a waste of money.

In any case, the music on the label is generally speaking eccentric stuff made by hobbyists, and an expensive PR-campaign on some streaming site isn't going to suddenly make this sort of thing interesting to a bigger audience. We're all here already.

From a more personal perspective, transferring money to an anonymous person on an internet forum feels too much like a fool's game. It would make a considerable difference to me if the label was run by an actual, named, public person. If I can't readily find the name of who's responsible for running things, I immediately see the potential for foul play (which actually seems to have been a problem for you guys already).

Finally - I also think that digital downloads and paid streaming services are plain boring.

If you released a series of experimental 7 inches, or maybe the occasional vinyl album, I'd be much more inclined to part with my money.
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Old 24-01-2018, 05:58 PM   #74
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

We won't be buying the site from the owner or make any drastic changes (yet?), but just so you're aware, we're reaching out to him to see what can we do to A) improve security and B) Understand how.what can be upgraded.

Once we know more, we'll have a new thread to try and share some plans for the forum.

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Old 26-01-2018, 09:02 AM   #75
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

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How much money are you willing to invest without expecting ANY return whatsoever?
few hundred bucks at the least. if someone else or three is willing to do the same along side me I'd be happy to make a go of it. I'd have to have some time to same up some money first to do it but I'd be more than happy to.

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Old 12-04-2018, 11:50 PM   #76
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

Im dropping this in here (and a few other forums) as its popped up in my radar inbox.
Ive no affiliation apart from membership (several years back) and it was looking interesting then suddenly vanished.
Anyway relevant information and links Ive seen thus far in chronological order:
Background
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]

White Paper info
White Paper
Crowd site sale and general website info
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]


They used to be pretty good and I do remember a various CEO emails prior to their move to Silicon valley and well...the rest is in the above.
Seems interesting and maybe relevant. Im actually going to post this a few other forums and see peoples take on it.

Seems interesting and maybe relevant to aspirational music peeps.
of course there is an inbuilt cynicism and curiosity in this.

Last edited by MFXxx; 13-04-2018 at 12:02 AM..

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Old 13-04-2018, 04:32 AM   #77
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

MFXxx, I took a look at the whitepaper, and while it sounds great from an artist side, it sounds really poopy for a listener looking to listen to some tunes (which by extension makes it poopy for an artist). I think an average listener can deal with some adds on spotify or soundcloud, pay a monthly fee and avoid adds or go to Tidal and stream losslessly, or be forced to pay for each listen either with hard cash or by judging artists' work that they may have no interest in. In a way, it sounds like the LB here, but with money, and I don't think the LB would be a very profitable venture.... unless the mods want to try that and find out (Pay expert/respected community members for feedback?).

As an artist, yeah, it sounds good IF in exchange for Universal Media group being a backer they don't get preferential treatment in the discovery process. How random are the seven quickplay discovery tracks really? Is there some biasing factors in there that looks for a certain number of likes or plays before your songs will even qualify to get in? Are UMG's songs going to be six of the seven tracks presented? Are we as artists going to be nickeled and dimed to get into discovery like boosting posts on facebook? I know that's not what the founders want, but get some VC in there that wants them to make numbers and it's little things like this that are going to get tweaked. Again, this is all assuming they can even draw a real audience to the platform, which frankly I have yet to see on any platform outside of youtube. Every other streaming platform I've been on with a low barrier to entry is mostly just other musicians hawking their own tracks, and those are all free for listeners. I suppose their saving grace is that the artists have skin in the game, so they're hoping for more serious artists, but really what's $20 bucks for some soundcoin instead of boosting an FB post or getting some cheap plays on soundcloud? It's not much of an investment.

I hope I'm wrong, but I feel like I've seen similar services without money where there's similar unspoken economies, and you end up with a bunch of artists trying to convince a bunch of other artists to stop working on their own stuff and make someone else rich and famous. Now with blockchain.

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Old 13-04-2018, 12:03 PM   #78
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

Yeah, there's more than a few of these things trying to take off and get everyone on board. Take the likes of PledgeMusic, which is explained in the video below by Benji Rogers (Founder & CEO) and artist Imogen Heap, who has already released music using blockchain technology.


The thing about all of this is the one that "wins" will be the one the Majors adopt and not the one that the listeners go for, as the Majors are in it for the money and the current trend is listeners don't tend to pay for music as much as they used to in the past, preferring to rip or steam, while should support for their artists of choice by attending gigs and buying other related stuff.

So, from and an artist's standpoint, if the Majors win, this technology will in a sense be used to "watermark" music and make sure folks pay for everything. It doesn't mean artists adopting this are going to start making more money by default, as they will still need to have actual people who want to buy their music in the first place..and that requires promotion and access to mainstream outlets, which are still dominated by the Majors.

In theory, blockchain sounds cool..and it IS..but it's not going to herald in the new musical age, as some seem to be proclaiming..but rather just help the current monopoly easy into the digital age, which is what they've been trying to do now for a long time, but never could really manage to achieve.

I'm not being negative here..just realistic. Face it, who has the resources to advance any of this? The major labels and start-ups looking for backers..or the likes of you and me sitting at home? They say it takes money to make money and that's true. While some blockchain service like those mentioned in this thread might very well help push things along and make some extra cash for artists, while giving them a little more control and insight into where they music is going and being played..in the end, it will be controlled or manipulated by the mainstream music industry..just like it's always been.

LSS..I don't see Blockchain really changing things all that much. I hope I'm wrong about this..and it certainly isn't going to do anything for our own IDMf label either, in the short term.

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Old 13-04-2018, 03:55 PM   #79
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Re: IDMf netlabel: what are the plans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oly View Post
Some of us should just get together and straight up buy the site from Stu.
Personally I don't see this as realistic. Even if we got 12 people to donate $100, we'd probably blow that in a year just keeping the forum running. Don't we know Stu is already paying a hundo a month in server fees?

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