How many of you actually went to school for this?
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Old 17-02-2014, 11:40 PM   #1
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How many of you actually went to school for this?

Like legit, courswork grades type curriculum type shit. Cause I've been seeing stuff like this more and more everyday, and I dunno whether to be confused or.......yeah wtf.....

http://www.recordingconnection.com/c...uction-school/

Especially stuff like this thats endorsed by XXX artist plus XXX's artists artist that did this for XXX and produced for X while X gave a handjob to X while sucking X off who knows Dr. XXX.

I just....I dunno.

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Old 18-02-2014, 01:44 AM   #2
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

I kind of wish I went to college for something audio engineering/music related. Just be careful where you spend your money, at any rate.
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Old 18-02-2014, 01:48 AM   #3
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

At this point I look at it like this: most of those schools probably offer legit programs, but its just like going to college...the degree doesnt really mean shit in the end, only what you do with what you learned.

I would probably be careful picking a program, just as in regular colleges there are crappy, for profit ones. Undoubtedly one of this will pop up that is a rip off.

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Old 18-02-2014, 01:55 AM   #4
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

I did take a few random courses at my university in computer music (mostly focused on using MAX/MSP and roots of experimental computer music) and recording. But I did not major in music. Was just on the side since I was interested and it was available. Had to apply for special permission since it was outside of my department.

I have a tough time imagining making a full time program out of electronic music unless you are learning recording or perhaps music compositional theory (in which case I think you'd be better served by learning about "real" music composition). The one you linked seems to be recording based so it's probably got some value.

There's probably OK money in pandering to parents of wanna be teen idol types, recording their professional demos, and promising them that they will be the next big thing. But it's not like there are tons of studios looking for guys fresh out of school to work for them. You'd have to have some money and facilities to get going and some decent business/marketing skill too.
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Old 18-02-2014, 04:18 AM   #5
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

This might be great for people who aren't passionate enough or self-disciplined enough to learn how to do it on their own. Or possibly those who would rather not make their own connections. It makes sense and it's probably great if you have the money, but I doubt it's going to change anyone's life unless they're already putting effort into it.
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Old 21-02-2014, 07:50 AM   #6
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

I went to Illinois State for arts technology. It's kind of a hybrid music/art/electronic music program.

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Old 21-02-2014, 08:36 AM   #7
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

I went to study an instrument when I was pretty young (drums, percussion) , then study music (theory, composition, arrangement, conducting, etc), then more instruments (guitar, vocals) and finally went to uni to study sound engineering.

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Old 21-02-2014, 10:12 AM   #8
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

Yeah I have 2 degrees in music. But not in one of these new "electronic music producer" programs.

I did a music and multimedia applications undergrad. Full theory coursework and aural training, composition, plus tv/film production and sound design and digital art. Got a masters in electronic music and recording, whoch was much more experimental, and had a lot of focus on papers and performance.

but, as others said, its about what you do with the degree, those online programs seem to be aimed at people that want to become big name producers.

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Old 21-02-2014, 01:54 PM   #9
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

The courses that were around when I was starting out were a joke and everyone I know who did one (myself included) has a very cynical view of them back then.

I received advice from my lecturers along the lines of "this is a compressor... you turn this knob and it makes everything bigger sounding" and "if things are clipping, just throw a limiter across everything...". Terrible advice that didn't actually teach you anything! Even at the time, I knew this couldn't be right, so did lots of reading, practice and spoke to experienced people to educate myself.

However that was some time ago. One of the things I do for work is teach Music Technology at a senior school (14-18yr olds). The school has a small, free-standing building that's been converted into a recording studio with some very comprehensive equipment for a senior school. Toft ATB 24 with MOTU 24IO and Logic. Also Pro Tools HD2 with Digi 96 and C24 controller. Kurzweil PC3K8, which is a great work horse stage piano, some great mics including AKG 414 and Neumann KM184s. Air conditioning, a nice upright piano, sound proofing and good acoustic treatment throughout.

It's certainly better than the pap I was expected to learn on back in the day. And because the education I received was frankly piss poor, I ensure these kids truly know and understand everything from the ground up. I get them adopting music technology and sound engineering as a way of life, not just something you study. Some of them eat, sleep and breathe music production, be it indy rock or dance music. They joke and say with me, "you don't study music tech, you are music tech".

And I guarantee the kids in my class have a great time, are very dedicated and despite being only 17-18 are making music that's is as good as what they'd be expected to make at degree level. (Yes many of them go on to do degrees in Music Production, and frankly, they kick butt thanks to their solid foundations ).

So in all, music technology courses aren't a bad idea and can lead to very creative people doing very positive things. However, Music Technology is still seen as a doss subject and is very popular with lazy musicians looking to avoid the real world and getting a job. But because it's so popular, we have academies and colleges all over the place now and I worry about the quality of education in all these places.

Firstly, just because you're an amazing sound engineer, doesn't mean you can teach it. Teaching is its own discipline. You need to be both a good music technology practitioner and a good teacher. Are there really enough of these sorts of people out there to run all of these courses? I doubt it!

Secondly, how many sound engineers does the world need? Considering the economic situation, shouldn't people be training in more widely useful trades?

What we're really touching on here is the politics of education. You're funded depending on numbers. In order to have good numbers, you need to run subjects kids want to do, and kids don't think about future employment prospects when, at 15 years of age, you show them a recording studio and say "this will be your classroom".

Furthermore, with the massive number of people becoming "qualified" in music production with degrees and then not getting work (as it's a very hard industry to crack into), they find themselves teaching the subject! So really, many of these courses are being run by people with very little real world experience, fresh out of university and back to teaching the stuff at college. So the music production education industry to an extent exists solely to justify its existence... if that even makes sense ?

Basically, the world doesn't need as many sound engineers as it's currently training and sooner or later this system will eat itself and these courses won't be so widely available.

The next debate of course is with technological advances and ever increasing accessibility of music technology, will we even need teaching courses in this stuff in the future? But that's a whole other discussion and I've rambled for long enough on this one.

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Old 21-02-2014, 02:51 PM   #10
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Planetside View Post
Like legit, courswork grades type curriculum type shit. Cause I've been seeing stuff like this more and more everyday, and I dunno whether to be confused or.......yeah wtf.....

http://www.recordingconnection.com/c...uction-school/

Especially stuff like this thats endorsed by XXX artist plus XXX's artists artist that did this for XXX and produced for X while X gave a handjob to X while sucking X off who knows Dr. XXX.

I just....I dunno.
not a single hour.
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Old 21-02-2014, 05:01 PM   #11
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

I'm currently in my last 12 or so weeks of Music at college. I took music technology in the first year but my teacher was an absolute prick so I dropped out. But my main course has been Performance where I've been playing drums in various bands for 2 or so years. It's been fun but I kinda wish I stayed with Music Tech as well. However my college's course is great with very helpful and knowledgeable lecturers. I'm tempted after my year out to either try and go to DBS Berlin or my local Uni which has an amazing music tech program.
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Old 23-02-2014, 06:09 PM   #12
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

Yeah never took classes except for back in elementary school from 4th-8th grade.... Like others have stated degrees mean nothing it is what you do with them.. So it is probably safe to say that there are people that have gone a spent money to get the degree but never got hot or turned up their own degrees you know, while there are people that never took a class and are on fire... It's what you do with it or with out it that really makes the difference...
Me personally i would love to take a few classes but no money for that rn as I am going to college for something else at the moment so i stick to tutorials and such...
On a side note there are tones of tutorials on everything form basic music theory, learning to play by ear to how to create a certain type of synth patch and tutorials on how certain plugins and things work so i think there is a large amount of information that can be learned for free or very cheap on the internet now and days.. It is indead the information era

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Old 24-02-2014, 01:01 AM   #13
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

My opinion is that as long as it's only about technical skills, then it's definitely got some value. Not the degree itself of course which means shit. If they start talking about which chord sequences make the 12-year olds squeal then forget about it.

But I also think that full-time courses which last more than a year are excessive, and it can easily become a waste of time. I took a summer course in sound design/synthesis which lasted a single week and I learned a shit ton of things, I can't imagine extending that across a year or two, seems ridiculous.

Depends on the person in any case.
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Old 24-02-2014, 01:13 AM   #14
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

nope zero nada here.

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Old 24-02-2014, 01:32 AM   #15
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

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Originally Posted by Akiak View Post
My opinion is that as long as it's only about technical skills, then it's definitely got some value. Not the degree itself of course which means shit. If they start talking about which chord sequences make the 12-year olds squeal then forget about it.

But I also think that full-time courses which last more than a year are excessive, and it can easily become a waste of time. I took a summer course in sound design/synthesis which lasted a single week and I learned a shit ton of things, I can't imagine extending that across a year or two, seems ridiculous.

Depends on the person in any case.
Indeed. I could deliver everything I teach over a two year qualification in a month. I mean, once you've covered the theories and principle with a few tricks and techniques thrown in for good measure, it's about practice and developing your ears. But in all honesty, it would take a person like myself to actually come away from a short intensive course having learned a lot. Most wouldn't and your course would get a bad rep and then you'd lose repeat business and new customers after word got out that your course was full on and really hard, which is what it all about sadly.

Some of the kids I teach are great, but they don't have the staying power I had at their age. I guess you'd call it drive!

Also, there's a real culture shift now and I blame the internet (without trying to sound like an old fart). Kids expect instant gratification and instant results. They give up instantly because their dry recording sounds shit. They don't care how to get it sounding like the Arctic Monkeys or Daft Punk. They just expect it to when they hit the record button! It's this attitude I devote a lot of time to altering in the early stages of the course. Promoting perseverance and viewing sound engineering as a craft, just like learning an instrument or being a carpenter. It simply takes time, but it's worth it in the end.

When I did a degree, it was a joke. I'd sit in the first few lectures in awe, absorbing everything like a sponge. Then I quickly realised the game and got board with the slow teaching style, gaps in lecturer knowledge and poor subject delivery. I learned a 1000 times more in the years after my degree in which I spent hanging out with older engineers in studios as I was working as a session keys player. In the 6 months after I graduated I'd learnt more than I'd learned in 3 years of "education".

I say find a course that's right for you, immerse yourself in it, but if you're truly into it and smart, use the course for it's access to nice studio facilities, meeting like minded people and forging new creative relationships with other musicians your same age. Whilst studying, work outside of the course for free in studios to gain real experience and real lessons on engineering. Even if you're making hot drinks all day and nothing else. Just being around real, hardcore, experienced practitioners is worth it's weight in gold.

The industry itself has no interest in academic qualifications. It cares about experience. A degree in music production won't land you a job. Word of mouth, examples of high quality work and willingness to start at the bottom and take any work going it what will get you work in sound engineering.

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Old 24-02-2014, 08:20 AM   #16
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

I'm currently enrolled in an audio engineering program. I'm definitely learning a lot, but there is also a lot of stuff that will probably never apply to me. I don't think I'll get into live sound or recording, but still, I think it's good to have this knowledge. It's also equally as useful I find to learn about what you DON'T want to do.

Overall, it's not necessary, it's expensive, and what you get out of it is determined by how much you put into it. This goes for any type of schooling. It's definitely not a waste though, and I've made a ton of connections and even picked up some clients / jobs from just being at the school.

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Old 24-02-2014, 08:33 AM   #17
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

I think the following can apply to most anything concerning education- it opens doors. A degree will get you that job interview, or you make connections while in school. It's valuable depending upon how you use it, and if it matters to you.

I will always regret to this day changing my degree from music. I bought into the idea that you needed to get a degree in a field that would make money. In the end, if you love it, you will make it valuable because you care about it.
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Old 24-02-2014, 04:25 PM   #18
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

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I think the following can apply to most anything concerning education- it opens doors. A degree will get you that job interview, or you make connections while in school. It's valuable depending upon how you use it, and if it matters to you.

I will always regret to this day changing my degree from music. I bought into the idea that you needed to get a degree in a field that would make money. In the end, if you love it, you will make it valuable because you care about it.
absolutely.

Personally I didn't want to "work" with music for a living. I thought maybe I would be to drained musically from work to be able to handle it on my free time.

Sound design for movies and stuff would be awesome to work with though, didn't know that could be a career at that point though.
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Old 24-02-2014, 04:29 PM   #19
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

I've actually been toying with the idea of taking some classes, I do like studying and I wouldn't mind giving my self-taught skill a more organised structure/direction.

Too bad that working full time I would need to find evening or online classes and I'm a bit skeptic of online classes...

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Old 24-02-2014, 04:38 PM   #20
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Re: How many of you actually went to school for this?

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I've actually been toying with the idea of taking some classes, I do like studying and I wouldn't mind giving my self-taught skill a more organised structure/direction.

Too bad that working full time I would need to find evening or online classes and I'm a bit skeptic of online classes...
I am teaching a "hybrid" online writing class this semester. We only meet once a week and everything else is online or by email. And there is no attendance policy governing the weekly meeting (its more of an extended office hours period).

Its extremely hit or miss for the students and I dont like it for teaching writing. My suggestion would be if you feel like you need a lot of face time in education is to be wary of online classes.



Also just wanted to second what Opus said about students who have all kinds of problems with a lack of "instant gratification" in their course work. I have a really hard time getting even my intellegent, motivated students to revise any essay or participate in the process of writing. They want to do the single draft method and expect high end results...which sounds much like Opus's students who want their dry recordings to sound polished and awesome after a single take.

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