[I/O_Madness]

theory elitists... pffft

[Paggos]

Learning the basics are essential and it's way easier to capture the mood you're looking for imo
Maybe all the information hinders whoever.

[acousrama]

It helps to structure you as a musician. I don't regret to have study it. But after studying harmony and counterpoint, I felt the need to "forget" what I learned. Learning theory make a musician enter in a monotony and a regularity that you have to break to be creative.

N.D ([Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
)

[I/O_Madness]

I've taken lessons but primarily the work I do in music involves editing or recording or twisting knobs which they never covered in any piano class I took. In fact, they didn't even cover that in Applied synthesizer (very disapointing).

Music theory meaning taking lessons on how to play songs that use this or that scale or use these chords or read these dynamics... they're all nice, but if you don't like it it's not going to help your music.

What is important in making music is liking what you do. Sometimes you need to understand certain ideas to get that, other times all it takes is a sense of humor and wanting to have fun. Who says I can't make duck sounds on my synthesizer? It's my music. I do what I want to with it.

I may not be able to sight read very well or perform an analysis of a written piece, but I like to make weird sounds, and that's why I play music.

All you theory elitists can go back to 1-3-5-1.

[ghyt wembpang]

Originally Posted by I/O_Madness

I've taken lessons but primarily the work I do in music involves editing or recording or twisting knobs which they never covered in any piano class I took. In fact, they didn't even cover that in Applied synthesizer (very disapointing).

Music theory meaning taking lessons on how to play songs that use this or that scale or use these chords or read these dynamics... they're all nice, but if you don't like it it's not going to help your music.

What is important in making music is liking what you do. Sometimes you need to understand certain ideas to get that, other times all it takes is a sense of humor and wanting to have fun. Who says I can't make duck sounds on my synthesizer? It's my music. I do what I want to with it.

I may not be able to sight read very well or perform an analysis of a written piece, but I like to make weird sounds, and that's why I play music.

All you theory elitists can go back to 1-3-5-1.

I hardly apply theory in much of a practical sense but I'd still recommend people learn some theory.

And like, formal theory is learning to sight read and modes and notation and shit... that's further than you need to go though, unless you have a desire to do that kind of stuff. A lot of the basics aren't that hard to grasp and help you out immensely - especially if you plan on ever working with anyone else on music. Just things like note values, the names of notes and the basic scales, how to put a few chords together.

Beyond that, engineering and mixing and recording theory are all perhaps a bit more applicable for people of a mind such as yourself, or like myself even.

[Crude_beats]

If it hinders your creativity you didnt practice with it enough.

[I/O_Madness]

Originally Posted by machinehermit

Anyone anti music theory is just making up self excuses for being lazy or excuses why their music fucking blows.

I make lots of music and I love my music.

in response to gwytwembpang's post, music theory may be helpful playing with some musicians, but musicians who don't use music theory will be lost anyhow, andthey might as well find a language they b understand. Like, "play a neat jimmy paige type solo!" or, "play me some hip hop", or, "play me some funky beats". You don't need to write down any chords or know e namez, you just need to know the sound. It's not like someone who hasn't taken music theory won't be able to distinguish country from rap, and even in a situation where it's, say, Classical vs Rpmantic, you don't need to know the names of the chords or write them down or be able to notate it to get what the muisician is saing.

What I think is ridiculous is people whotreat music lessons, as in sight reading, memorizng scales, writing chords down is the only way to talk about music and know what's going on. I will say at this point you may want to learn music theory to help you understand it further, but it's not necessary to appreciate something.

Knowledge never hurt anyone, but you don't need to know music theory to love music. I think if you love something enough, that's all you need. I do second that knowledge can help you expand ypur understanding and appreciation, hwever, and ths s from experience in my Music History & Literature classes!!

music degree all the way

[I/O_Madness]

Originally Posted by acousrama

It helps to structure you as a musician. I don't regret to have study it. But after studying harmony and counterpoint, I felt the need to "forget" what I learned. Learning theory make a musician enter in a monotony and a regularity that you have to break to be creative.

N.D ([Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
)

I'd say not all aspects of theory are the best inspiration (chord analysis?... perhaps, or recognizing chords be ear? Valuable skill, yes, but does it inspire ideas? ...maybe...)

Learning to play a song you don't like, for example, is not going to make you like music any more. And I realize there's the whole "give the song a chance" but some songs are just boring, dull and unremarkable. That's just fact.

Theory is nothing without wanting to play music. Going to music lessons may help some, but they may not help some others. I originally loved piano as a kid. I practiced all the time, jumped ahead in my book... then my teacher took a better job and I got a strict old lady who I didn't like, so I quit lessons.

In my lessons, I always enjoyed learning and playing new songs. I liked improvising (later on when I started lessons again). I didn't like practicing scales as much.

I don't mind now tho. It's like fiber in your diet. Nothing but goodness for your music skill though it may be less exciting as playing a song you haven't previously heard.


EDIT:

All said and done, one thing that makes me want to learn music theory is fear of ending up like another Keithy/Quantum. Maybe he was a troll, but maybe he was just having fun making music. However, he wasn't learning. He did not learn. He did the same thing again and again. OK, it's interesting, but what will he do next? I often feel like that in my music. It doesn't even matter if I like my music, what's important is other perspectives and learning from those. I feel that's my major block in music.

It's like I have fun making music and all... it gets boring after a while. Of course I always get excited whenever I do anything new, only it's not new. I love music, however I sometimes feel I'm not really doing anything. Like people just say, "that's a nice track", because they know you. I wonder if I'm making progress at all, or I'm rehashing old techniques and falling into one formula.

[ghyt wembpang]

Originally Posted by I/O_Madness

I make lots of music and I love my music.

in response to gwytwembpang's post, music theory may be helpful playing with some musicians, but musicians who don't use music theory will be lost anyhow, andthey might as well find a language they b understand. Like, "play a neat jimmy paige type solo!" or, "play me some hip hop", or, "play me some funky beats". You don't need to write down any chords or know e namez, you just need to know the sound. It's not like someone who hasn't taken music theory won't be able to distinguish country from rap, and even in a situation where it's, say, Classical vs Rpmantic, you don't need to know the names of the chords or write them down or be able to notate it to get what the muisician is saing.

What I think is ridiculous is people whotreat music lessons, as in sight reading, memorizng scales, writing chords down is the only way to talk about music and know what's going on. I will say at this point you may want to learn music theory to help you understand it further, but it's not necessary to appreciate something.

Knowledge never hurt anyone, but you don't need to know music theory to love music. I think if you love something enough, that's all you need. I do second that knowledge can help you expand ypur understanding and appreciation, hwever, and ths s from experience in my Music History & Literature classes!!

music degree all the way

sure but if I am jamming with someone and say 'it's in a really minor sounding scale, and the chords are Bb Fm7 Dsus(random chords I pulled out of my ass, whatever) for two bars each in 7/8 time' it's nice if they know what that all means and don't have to putz around for 20 minutes trying to figure out what scale fits it and having me explain hat th fuck 7/8 time is.

So I didn't even mean in a studying sort of sense, just knowing the basics can be such a massive help.

the issue arises, as many have said, when people treat theory as rules and not just a set of observations about how sounds work together.

[I/O_Madness]

Originally Posted by ghytwembpang

sure but if I am jamming with someone and say 'it's in a really minor sounding scale, and the chords are Bb Fm7 Dsus(random chords I pulled out of my ass, whatever) for two bars each in 7/8 time' it's nice if they know what that all means and don't have to putz around for 20 minutes trying to figure out what scale fits it and having me explain hat th fuck 7/8 time is.

So I didn't even mean in a studying sort of sense, just knowing the basics can be such a massive help.

the issue arises, as many have said, when people treat theory as rules and not just a set of observations about how sounds work together.

Usually people know tho. Maybe you can't say Bb Fm7 Dsus, however, you can say, "like this" and play it.

People get it if you're not overly into the theory. It's natural someone will have no clue what a Fm7 is, however if they have the feel, they can go from there (I can at least).

[I/O_Madness]

To me, saying "D7" or "Amin9add4" is like learning on language. OK, it's geared towards music, but not everyone may speak it. Sure if you go to a college professor and say, "Here I did a Fdim#7 to a Bb9 to resolve the hanging flat fifth" they'll get it (actually that also is off the top of my head it's probably completely random), however if you go to your friend who hasn't taken lessons it's not going to help to ask him to play a Fm7 to a D6, then go into a lengthy music lesson to explain the difference. Sometimes you just have to say, "Do something like this, sorta like this but like this". They have imaginations. You don't need theory with imagination. It helps, though maybe it also can leave you over thinking your music and lead to a dead end.

And so I again stress that music theory is not as important as having a genuine desire to play. Create before you memorize a bunch of stuff you're going to forget a year later. See if you like doing it first.

[bandcoach]

Describing chords is perhaps the single most important thing you can do for a musician working in a chordal context - I don't mean teaching them how to play it, but being able to say which notes are needed: i.e. which keys to press or which frets to hold down.

If you can't do that then no amount of inspiration is going to help your "friend" play the right notes.

Abdicating any and all responsibility for knowing how to describe your music in the simplest terms is unbelievable. I get that you can tap a rhythm out, I get that you can hum a melody but not being able to name a chord or the notes in it is just a little too far.

I started on guitar - a chord based instrument as well as a melodic instrument. The fundamentals of playing the guitar involve playing chords.

Chord shapes are some of the first things students learn even if they are teaching themselves. Knowing that you can adapt that shape over the entire fretboard comes with time.

Knowing how to construct chords anywhere on the guitar is a great skill and an asset but not necessary if you can access a dictionary of chord shapes either in book form or on-line.

[bodfhgjkl2]

ive come to the conclusion that learning music theory is mostly good, but if you get too far into the tehnical side of things, you'll forget about the music. I guess before learning it you shouldhave some idea of what youre trying to do

[Tode]

Originally Posted by bodfhgjkl2

ive come to the conclusion that learning music theory is mostly good, but if you get too far into the tehnical side of things, you'll forget about the music. I guess before learning it you shouldhave some idea of what youre trying to do

You think you forget about the music from getting a deeper understanding of the music?

[bandcoach]

Originally Posted by bodfhgjkl2

ive come to the conclusion that learning music theory is mostly good, but if you get too far into the tehnical side of things, you'll forget about the music. I guess before learning it you shouldhave some idea of what youre trying to do

I directly challenge such an assertion - I'm still studying theory and going deeper all the time - it makes it easier to write not harder.

The only time I find it difficult is when applying new concepts, everything I've learnt is easy enough to put to use, its just when you add something new to your arsenal, it takes time to get the groove for it happening, just like adding a new piece of software or hardware to your studio.....

[ghyt wembpang]

Originally Posted by Tode

You think you forget about the music from getting a deeper understanding of the music?

I think what he means is like, people who jsut get sucked into learning theory as much as they can, who never actually end up writing any music because they're practicing scales and performance pieces and obsessing abou knowing everything.

[RajaResAlien]

The discussion seems a bit locked in a bubble... we're mostly talking about music theory as it applies to a western eurocentric form of musical understanding. Years from now, you might know everything there is to know about chords, modalities, within a tuning system where the octave is divided into 12 equal-tempered steps, but you still might be considered ignorant if you don't understand the same within every other tuning system that exists.
In short, it's hard to say anyone's 'learned music theory' to a comprehensive extent while it's changing and being rediscovered so much. So therefore, there's no time at which it would be wise to claim regret. Chances are, the learning is not complete.

Still... learning something to a great extent changes your experience of it, sometimes it's almost like you've violated it with your inquiry and shamefully exposed it with your learning. It can be disillusioning. Or it can be too empowering and you get bloated by ego over knowledge. In either case, you can end up listening and making music from a completely different place than your heart.

Great thread. I think any music theory can help, but there's no substitute for ear-training.

[astroidmist]

Music theory helped me a bit, but it helps me most when it's sort of there in the back of my mind while I'm jamming or overdubbing. If I have to stop and think stuff too much, the creative flow seems less, but then again it's not really... it's just converted into tool-using mode. So either way it helps me. Like I might be playing a broken chord up and down the keyboard and modulating into other intervals but if I get stuck, then I stop the DAW from recording and edit the MIDI grid according to some theory I might weakly remember.

But I must say learning timing helped me the most. Learning how to count measures and to hear the actual note durations correctly in your head is a huge skill. It's really helped me to finally know how to quantize MIDI performances that others would possible give up on. For example somebody else might think a classical trill is just me wiggling my fingers fast according to how I feel. But I know it's say 32nd notes, and I know how to make them work in an electro tune. I can't remember how to read notation for actual melodies though. It's kind of a shame. And there's lots else I can't remember anymore. But I don't worry too much about it because I think about and usually work on music in some capacity every day of my life.

And I'm still making tunes.

[Vlantis]

Gosh, not this again.

[Mobilio]

Both of my parents are classical musicians. I have been studying music theory since age 2. Music theory helps up until you get into tone row and retrograde (composing using algorithms) because that is just a waste of time.

But theory is crucial in songwriting/production. Sure the rules are annoying but at least you know that you are breaking the rules (no parallel fifths, no parallel octaves etc...)

Music theory will make you a better songwriter and better producer. Just stop at the point when they start trying to get you to compose music based on algorithms.