[experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:03 AM   #1
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[experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker

I'm posting this just because I think it's novel.
This is one of those songs that's more of a "musician's music" than music anyone would probably listen to for the purpose of "getting down" or just chilling, so don't expect this to "rock your socks off" or be a "banger".

Firstly, the engineering on this is not what I would now call great.
At the time, I wasn't yet focusing on the mixing and mastering concepts and was instead more focused on getting my head wrapped around what my ideas and philosophies were on electronic music writing in general.

During that time, I (just like today) was watching lots of documentaries, and one documentary that I happened to watch was about Ginger Baker and it caused me to ponder what it would be like to infuse a Ginger Baker inspired drumline (read, jazz rooted and full of tom rolls) into an electronic song.

So the goal was to merge my impression of his concepts regarding drumming into a four on the floor dance beat - which is no real simple task.
The way that I went about this was that I looked up his drum kit setup and then duplicated it in ableton one-to-one so that I could "see" the drums the way that he did (as best as possible, anyway).

I also wanted to play WITH Ginger Baker at some point in the song and not just emulate his concepts, so I used a video he made ages ago which was a training video on how to play drums (which I had been using to guide my take on the drumline) and allowed one part of the song toward the end to break down to JUST his drum rolling with my drum beat making (4:44), ending with letting Mr. Baker take a solo on the intro to the final "chorus" (4:58).

Further, Ginger Baker loves Africa (he moved there, in fact) and African rhythms as well, so the female screaming that happens to sound like "I say yeah, let's go!" isn't actually English at all.
That's a snip I took from an African tribal dance and it just happened that if you sliced that part an English-speaking brain would often hear "I say yeah, let's go!", which worked out well enough for the purposes of its use.
This is further enforced into the mind by Ginger Baker's line, "Are you ready, to go?"

Ginger Baker speaks VERY heavily through his nose, so if anyone wonders what he said in the middle, he's saying, "OK, so this is a drum kit and I'm Ginger Baker".

The song as a whole is written as a pseudo canon, so all parts are variations and rounds of each other and as such towards the end, parts that were played separate previously are then overlapped and combined.

The flow itself was also an experiment because I didn't stop at just "jamming" with Ginger Baker, I also wanted to experiment with the structure of a Musical song for an EDM song instead of an EDM's structure (that is, it shifts heavily in parts and sounds like a different character has hit the scene).

So...EDM, Jazz Rock, Musical, Canon.
Roll it up into a ball and see what happens.

Again, this isn't really a song a person would likely put on to jive to.

Mostly I'm sharing this just to showcase and converse over the experimental concept of mixing these vastly different styles together.

And yes...I'm QUITE certain Ginger Baker would punch me in the nose if he heard that this was supposed to be somehow inspired by his handiwork...luckily for me, I plan to never meet the man.

Oh, and the name...well, it's because he's a hot head.
So, it's a play on his name and the old lyric From "Rub-a-dub-dub", "The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker", but in this case, I'm meaning that Ginger Baker, who makes sweet percussive sound, is a hot head who makes a ruckus. (and he'd probably punch me again for the name as well )



Cheers!
TheStumps

Last edited by A.M; 01-12-2017 at 03:30 PM.. Reason: Fixed title

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Old 01-12-2017, 03:48 PM   #2
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Re: [experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker

Totally enjoyed that..really nice work. Liked and reposted over on SC.

One little suggestion, if I may..I'd keep the drums as they are..but I'd bring up everything else in the background a little, as the drums do seem to overpower everything else..and I get they are the main focus of the track, in a way..but it's a shame to let them stand in front of everything in else in mix as it currently is.

But that's just my opinion, based on my first impressions..and even having expressed the same, I still love this track. For some reason, I'm getting a distinctively Middle-Eastern feel from it..and it works really well. Don't know if it's just me..the combination of the sounds you've gone with..the timing of the piece in general..or a combo of all together. Whatever the cause is, it sounds cool.

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Old 01-12-2017, 04:14 PM   #3
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Re: [experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker

I also totally enjoyed this track along with your explanation. Great exercise and approach to learn something new.
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Old 02-12-2017, 01:21 AM   #4
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Re: [experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M View Post
Totally enjoyed that..really nice work. Liked and reposted over on SC.

One little suggestion, if I may..I'd keep the drums as they are..but I'd bring up everything else in the background a little, as the drums do seem to overpower everything else..and I get they are the main focus of the track, in a way..but it's a shame to let them stand in front of everything in else in mix as it currently is.
I'll put this on my to-do list; to go back and re-mix this with my newer standards as opposed to practically none back when I first wrote this.
And yes, I was definitely overly-focused on the drums at the time.
What I should have done, which I do now, is if I start a project with an instrument specifically in mind, I take a break after I'm done and come back after a few days or a week so that I can hear it without thinking as the "instrument musician" (same reason you don't want the guitarist sitting behind the mixing board, lol).
I didn't do that with this, lol...obviously. But I've wanted to remix and properly master this for a long time, but I'm pretty crappy at getting motivated to work on things I've "already done", but it definitely needs it.

Quote:
For some reason, I'm getting a distinctively Middle-Eastern feel from it..and it works really well. Don't know if it's just me..the combination of the sounds you've gone with..the timing of the piece in general..or a combo of all together. Whatever the cause is, it sounds cool.
It's the Am, but more specifically, the treatment of it.
It's doing that Hindi style of interval movement where you move very tight degrees and then a large jump to the interval on repeat; usually your starting note, up just one degree, down two, big jump down to the key. In this case the starting note is the 5th of the root/key; the rest is the rhythm of the way that movement is being done.
And that was a consequence of me consuming lots of bollywood music at the time because I was toying with the idea of doing my take on it.
I never did take a swing at my interpretation of bollywood sound, but the constant saturation of documentaries and tunes had an influence on what my brain would naturally spit out as a tonal structure (and netflix still thinks I want to watch everything in its library on India and Indian music culture, lol).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound--
I also totally enjoyed this track along with your explanation. Great exercise and approach to learn something new.
Cheers!


Glad you both liked it, and I hope it sparks creative ideas in the little grey cells for your own music !

Cheers!,
TheStumps

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You, or anyone else, are free to do anything with the music that I make. I consider all of my productions to be public domain. If someone asks, I will give them the source files and any related sample files if they are needed. Music is a dialogue, not a speech. Any listener must be free to become the speaker at any time for the life of the dialogue to be retained. Let us, then, discuss in tone.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:31 AM   #5
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Re: [experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStumps View Post
I'm posting this just because I think it's novel.
This is one of those songs that's more of a "musician's music" than music anyone would probably listen to for the purpose of "getting down" or just chilling, so don't expect this to "rock your socks off" or be a "banger".

Firstly, the engineering on this is not what I would now call great.
At the time, I wasn't yet focusing on the mixing and mastering concepts and was instead more focused on getting my head wrapped around what my ideas and philosophies were on electronic music writing in general.

During that time, I (just like today) was watching lots of documentaries, and one documentary that I happened to watch was about Ginger Baker and it caused me to ponder what it would be like to infuse a Ginger Baker inspired drumline (read, jazz rooted and full of tom rolls) into an electronic song.

So the goal was to merge my impression of his concepts regarding drumming into a four on the floor dance beat - which is no real simple task.
The way that I went about this was that I looked up his drum kit setup and then duplicated it in ableton one-to-one so that I could "see" the drums the way that he did (as best as possible, anyway).

I also wanted to play WITH Ginger Baker at some point in the song and not just emulate his concepts, so I used a video he made ages ago which was a training video on how to play drums (which I had been using to guide my take on the drumline) and allowed one part of the song toward the end to break down to JUST his drum rolling with my drum beat making (4:44), ending with letting Mr. Baker take a solo on the intro to the final "chorus" (4:58).

Further, Ginger Baker loves Africa (he moved there, in fact) and African rhythms as well, so the female screaming that happens to sound like "I say yeah, let's go!" isn't actually English at all.
That's a snip I took from an African tribal dance and it just happened that if you sliced that part an English-speaking brain would often hear "I say yeah, let's go!", which worked out well enough for the purposes of its use.
This is further enforced into the mind by Ginger Baker's line, "Are you ready, to go?"

Ginger Baker speaks VERY heavily through his nose, so if anyone wonders what he said in the middle, he's saying, "OK, so this is a drum kit and I'm Ginger Baker".

The song as a whole is written as a pseudo canon, so all parts are variations and rounds of each other and as such towards the end, parts that were played separate previously are then overlapped and combined.

The flow itself was also an experiment because I didn't stop at just "jamming" with Ginger Baker, I also wanted to experiment with the structure of a Musical song for an EDM song instead of an EDM's structure (that is, it shifts heavily in parts and sounds like a different character has hit the scene).

So...EDM, Jazz Rock, Musical, Canon.
Roll it up into a ball and see what happens.

Again, this isn't really a song a person would likely put on to jive to.

Mostly I'm sharing this just to showcase and converse over the experimental concept of mixing these vastly different styles together.

And yes...I'm QUITE certain Ginger Baker would punch me in the nose if he heard that this was supposed to be somehow inspired by his handiwork...luckily for me, I plan to never meet the man.

Oh, and the name...well, it's because he's a hot head.
So, it's a play on his name and the old lyric From "Rub-a-dub-dub", "The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker", but in this case, I'm meaning that Ginger Baker, who makes sweet percussive sound, is a hot head who makes a ruckus. (and he'd probably punch me again for the name as well )



Cheers!
TheStumps
Cool Back in past time of sound production.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:32 AM   #6
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Re: [experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStumps View Post
I'm posting this just because I think it's novel.
This is one of those songs that's more of a "musician's music" than music anyone would probably listen to for the purpose of "getting down" or just chilling, so don't expect this to "rock your socks off" or be a "banger".

Firstly, the engineering on this is not what I would now call great.
At the time, I wasn't yet focusing on the mixing and mastering concepts and was instead more focused on getting my head wrapped around what my ideas and philosophies were on electronic music writing in general.

During that time, I (just like today) was watching lots of documentaries, and one documentary that I happened to watch was about Ginger Baker and it caused me to ponder what it would be like to infuse a Ginger Baker inspired drumline (read, jazz rooted and full of tom rolls) into an electronic song.

So the goal was to merge my impression of his concepts regarding drumming into a four on the floor dance beat - which is no real simple task.
The way that I went about this was that I looked up his drum kit setup and then duplicated it in ableton one-to-one so that I could "see" the drums the way that he did (as best as possible, anyway).

I also wanted to play WITH Ginger Baker at some point in the song and not just emulate his concepts, so I used a video he made ages ago which was a training video on how to play drums (which I had been using to guide my take on the drumline) and allowed one part of the song toward the end to break down to JUST his drum rolling with my drum beat making (4:44), ending with letting Mr. Baker take a solo on the intro to the final "chorus" (4:58).

Further, Ginger Baker loves Africa (he moved there, in fact) and African rhythms as well, so the female screaming that happens to sound like "I say yeah, let's go!" isn't actually English at all.
That's a snip I took from an African tribal dance and it just happened that if you sliced that part an English-speaking brain would often hear "I say yeah, let's go!", which worked out well enough for the purposes of its use.
This is further enforced into the mind by Ginger Baker's line, "Are you ready, to go?"

Ginger Baker speaks VERY heavily through his nose, so if anyone wonders what he said in the middle, he's saying, "OK, so this is a drum kit and I'm Ginger Baker".

The song as a whole is written as a pseudo canon, so all parts are variations and rounds of each other and as such towards the end, parts that were played separate previously are then overlapped and combined.

The flow itself was also an experiment because I didn't stop at just "jamming" with Ginger Baker, I also wanted to experiment with the structure of a Musical song for an EDM song instead of an EDM's structure (that is, it shifts heavily in parts and sounds like a different character has hit the scene).

So...EDM, Jazz Rock, Musical, Canon.
Roll it up into a ball and see what happens.

Again, this isn't really a song a person would likely put on to jive to.

Mostly I'm sharing this just to showcase and converse over the experimental concept of mixing these vastly different styles together.

And yes...I'm QUITE certain Ginger Baker would punch me in the nose if he heard that this was supposed to be somehow inspired by his handiwork...luckily for me, I plan to never meet the man.

Oh, and the name...well, it's because he's a hot head.
So, it's a play on his name and the old lyric From "Rub-a-dub-dub", "The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker", but in this case, I'm meaning that Ginger Baker, who makes sweet percussive sound, is a hot head who makes a ruckus. (and he'd probably punch me again for the name as well )



Cheers!
TheStumps
Like the atmoshepe of the track.
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Old 02-12-2017, 04:38 PM   #7
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Re: [experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker

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You could have edited your first post and added that second post to it, rather than starting a new post.

Just some friendly advice..try not to do that again, or you might end up getting banned. "Post count bumping"..where you make loads of little posts..isn't tolerated on here..and what you did here makes it look like you're doing just that.

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Old 02-12-2017, 04:48 PM   #8
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Re: [experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStumps View Post
I'll put this on my to-do list; to go back and re-mix this with my newer standards as opposed to practically none back when I first wrote this.
And yes, I was definitely overly-focused on the drums at the time.
What I should have done, which I do now, is if I start a project with an instrument specifically in mind, I take a break after I'm done and come back after a few days or a week so that I can hear it without thinking as the "instrument musician" (same reason you don't want the guitarist sitting behind the mixing board, lol).
I didn't do that with this, lol...obviously. But I've wanted to remix and properly master this for a long time, but I'm pretty crappy at getting motivated to work on things I've "already done", but it definitely needs it.


It's the Am, but more specifically, the treatment of it.
It's doing that Hindi style of interval movement where you move very tight degrees and then a large jump to the interval on repeat; usually your starting note, up just one degree, down two, big jump down to the key. In this case the starting note is the 5th of the root/key; the rest is the rhythm of the way that movement is being done.
And that was a consequence of me consuming lots of bollywood music at the time because I was toying with the idea of doing my take on it.
I never did take a swing at my interpretation of bollywood sound, but the constant saturation of documentaries and tunes had an influence on what my brain would naturally spit out as a tonal structure (and netflix still thinks I want to watch everything in its library on India and Indian music culture, lol).


Cheers!


Glad you both liked it, and I hope it sparks creative ideas in the little grey cells for your own music !

Cheers!,
TheStumps
Thanks for explaining the theory behind it..as you know, I'm not really up on that side of things, so I actually learnt something there from what you shared. Nice one.

You're point about coming back to completed works..or WIPs is spot on..something everyone should practice, if they want to really polish the work they produce, but not everyone does it..or so it seems.

A lot of my early stuff just cries out to be remixed/remastered..and some of it will be, but then a lot of what I've done I feel should remain as it is..simply because it was the best I could so at the time, with the skills I had.

I think you get to a point where you look back and have to make a decision on which tracks actually deserve to be "polished up" to a hopefully higher level and those that should remain forever more as they are..testaments to your early sonic fumblings..landmarks you've left behind, on your musical journey through life.

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Old 03-12-2017, 04:45 AM   #9
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Re: [experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M View Post
Thanks for explaining the theory behind it..as you know, I'm not really up on that side of things, so I actually learnt something there from what you shared. Nice one.

You're point about coming back to completed works..or WIPs is spot on..something everyone should practice, if they want to really polish the work they produce, but not everyone does it..or so it seems.

A lot of my early stuff just cries out to be remixed/remastered..and some of it will be, but then a lot of what I've done I feel should remain as it is..simply because it was the best I could so at the time, with the skills I had.

I think you get to a point where you look back and have to make a decision on which tracks actually deserve to be "polished up" to a hopefully higher level and those that should remain forever more as they are..testaments to your early sonic fumblings..landmarks you've left behind, on your musical journey through life.
Well, see...it's things like this that happen.
I was going to put my current song aside and remix this song this weekend, but now you've gone and pulled my attention to your ambient contest so of course I'm going to start that tonight instead - haha!

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Old 03-12-2017, 01:57 PM   #10
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Re: [experimental] TheStumps - The Gingerbread Baker is a Candlestick Maker

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStumps View Post
Well, see...it's things like this that happen.
I was going to put my current song aside and remix this song this weekend, but now you've gone and pulled my attention to your ambient contest so of course I'm going to start that tonight instead - haha!
What can I say?

Seriously, J..thanks for the support..much appreciated. Here's hoping the [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
takes off and becomes a regular thing on here. Time will tell, I guess.

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