[NeonGnats]

I just want to hear what others are doing to prevent the repetition that's common and hopefully get some tips and ideas to move with.

Right now I'm using the Intro version of Ableton Live. No controllers, no keys, nothing. Just my mouse and laptop. So, when I get a good loop going, due to the Intro restrictions, it can be restrictive. Thoughts? Ideas? Am I just crazy?

[dizmo]

Originally Posted by NeonGnats

I just want to hear what others are doing to prevent the repetition that's common and hopefully get some tips and ideas to move with.

Right now I'm using the Intro version of Ableton Live. No controllers, no keys, nothing. Just my mouse and laptop. So, when I get a good loop going, due to the Intro restrictions, it can be restrictive. Thoughts? Ideas? Am I just crazy?

Automate a lot of shit, sometimes subtle automation can make a world of difference. Change some chords when it fits, alter the drums every now and then. Basically just add sounds/remove sounds/change stuff constantly.

[shiggedyshwa]

yeah what dizmo said.
Just try to work with transitions into your next loop, and with that next loop just move around bits and pieces to make it sound different
It's also important to not work only with loops and another idea worth trying is to rebuild parts from scratch in hopes you might come up with a different result.
(example: you have this drum loop that you made and a bassline and some other stuff, you loop through that once, then instead of just looping through it again, you have a modified drum loop and the bassline has an effects rack with the filter being automated to move up and down. Then your other tracks are also doing something different, for the next iteration you can do more, and just continue this, and have some parts pick up and slow down.)
This is just a suggestion, I oversimplified it quite a bit, but I hope you get the idea!

[Crude_beats]

Listen to music. there is much inspiration to be had.

don't limit yourself to a genre.

I kinda hear what the song needs at times. I can feel it. Othertimes I gotta force it and just try stuff over and over until Im satisfied.

[Inertia]

Combine session and arrangement view (in Ableton Live ofc).

What I tend to do is: make some loops in session view that sound fine together, record them into the arrangement view and start editing some stuff there.
This way I still have the possibility to experiment with the arrangement (launching clips from session view (very easy with my launchpad)) and try different things on the go, while I can build my song in the arrangement view, important here is a lot of automation and small edits (like different notes/fills or some small pauses, details!).

This probably is the strongest part of Ableton so why not utilize it as good as possible eh

[Inertia]

About those restrictions in Intro: bouncing tracks is the solution here, just record the track with the effects to another track and then remove the first track (with fx chain) and play the recorded track, this way you can use as many effects as you like (also good for the productivity).

[Digit]

Originally Posted by NeonGnats

I just want to hear what others are doing to prevent the repetition that's common and hopefully get some tips and ideas to move with.

Right now I'm using the Intro version of Ableton Live. No controllers, no keys, nothing. Just my mouse and laptop. So, when I get a good loop going, due to the Intro restrictions, it can be restrictive. Thoughts? Ideas? Am I just crazy?

i think you've got the number 1 thing needed to help overcome. awareness. of course, that's only half the battle won, and you're asking for the other half. i suppose i should come up with more than this then.

but no, i think that's really it. the moment you become aware of something happening too much to be worthy, stamp on it, give it a twist, shake something up, delve in and micromanage more of it.

+1 what dizmo said.

ps, ableton seems to offer way more trinketry to delve in and meddle than most others i've seen, and it also offers more automations, but it's how n where you use those automations that'll make the difference, and potentially cut out loads of repetition in both your workflow and ouput. (sorry i've no tangible specific tips... this is all theory after all. )

[NeonGnats]

Inertia - Thanks for that tip. I have used this trick before, especially with certain instuments that glide and you can't play chords with, but I like the chord sound. Also did it combining multiple drums on a song. But it's good to remember and keep tinkering on.

Digit - I agree. On another thread of mine we were conversing about the advantages of using the Akai APC40 with Live. I currently don't have one anymore, but it made it so easy for just messing with instuments on the fly. Adding space, adjusting attack and release, messing with the EQ. Tons of fun. I'm sorely missing the freedom that it provided!!!

Crude_beats - I found it helpful too doing remixes off of MIDI files found of the internet. Breaking down a solid file kinda helps you see what goes into it and what makes it sound like it does. I just barely got done attempting to remix "Imperial March" from a solid MIDI file, working around the chords, hits, etc. (SPAM ALERT - LINK PROVIDED). I did that too with some video game tunes I redone, and others like my remix of "Go Your Own Way" I just listened to certain elements of the song (like the bass line) that I wanted to give a new sound and emphasis on, and matched it until it was solid.

Thanks to all!
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[SoloSaga]

Atmosphere changes, automation and small build ups can help.

[jBam]

Repetition does truly help make emphasis in my tracks...

I find one of the real keys for me is to actually tighten up and make my tracks more repetitive...!

I find a repetition that is, say, 2 bars long way more distracting and annoying than one that is 1/2 a bar long... Particularly the 4 / 8 or even 16 part repeated patterns...

I'm sure it it interest and genre dependant, but for me (writing tech house / deep tech) I feel like the groove should be tight, and variations should be relatively original every time... even just slight differences.

The rest of it appears to already have been covered ---> subtle automation and evolution of the track (for both sounds and FX). I like to let the tight groove slowly evolve to drive the track, often with a particular element (e.g. synth line or percussion) that creates the journey / motion for the listener. Nice splashes and fx help a lot too... :-)

[jimmyr1988]

Definitely depends what genre you're going for. I personally like to make subtle variations to a melody or rhythm, fairly frequently so that it's not obviously different but there is a feeling of progression. If you're using loops this is harder and things like compression, filters, all your mastering tools can completely change the feel to give a similar effect.

[neyus]

Philip glass is one of the most respected composers out there and he is also known for music that emphasis on repetition. I've listened to him so much that it affected my music arrangement in a bad way back then lmao

But its definitely not a bad thing depending what audience you are targeting of course....

[jimmyr1988]

Yeah, Phillip Glass and Steve Reich both took repetition to new levels.

[Numerical]

Using the intro version eh? Why not just use a full featured daw like Reaper and let your musical wings fly. No restrictions on tracks or sends or anything but a nag screen when it starts, and it's only 60 bux.

I realize that you might be an Abletonian, but if you're feeling restricted because of it, then why the heck not switch to something unrestrictive. And none of that Tru-Coat bologne.

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Yeah mid post I discovered I was sounding a little like Jerry there.

[NeonGnats]

Originally Posted by Numerical

Using the intro version eh? Why not just use a full featured daw like Reaper and let your musical wings fly. No restrictions on tracks or sends or anything but a nag screen when it starts, and it's only 60 bux.

I realize that you might be an Abletonian, but if you're feeling restricted because of it, then why the heck not switch to something unrestrictive. And none of that Tru-Coat bologne.

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Yeah mid post I discovered I was sounding a little like Jerry there.

I believe using the "A S D F G H J K L" buttons on my laptop as a piano is the most restrictivity to me at this point (bleh...) But I'm down with trying new progs (new word?). (Seriously, with sells and coupons, $25 for Live is cheap).

[sqeakaleak]

Listen to your music out of context of your studio. Playing it in a situation where you are leisurely listening to music will help you spot when and where things need to change.

[sqeakaleak]

Originally Posted by jimmyr1988

Yeah, Phillip Glass and Steve Reich both took repetition to new levels.

THIS

But those guys are on another level. They have polyrhythms on lock. Four Tet kind of reminds me of an electronic example of Reich and Glass.

[J.Hartmann]

Automation, modulation, effects, note velocity and some fills every 16 or 32 bars are easy ways to get variations. You can also try a plugin like Thesys, it has a "mutate" function that simply changes (modulation and velocity) the sequence you already have, without changing the notes.

[NeonGnats]

Originally Posted by sqeakaleak

Listen to your music out of context of your studio. Playing it in a situation where you are leisurely listening to music will help you spot when and where things need to change.

I've really been trying to do that a lot more. Normally I can have a song non-existant then on soundcloud within a couple hours, but the last couple songs I've done I've really taken my time. Threw them on my iPod, listening to them at work and going "that needs to change, throw that in, that note's wrong". It's helped and I think greatly my my track better. (SPAM ALERT: Track in question on signiture)

[agargara]

Try repetition with slight variation. For example take your 4 bar drum loop, duplicate it into an 8 bar loop, rearrange some of the hits, repeat.