[SoloSaga]

Sometimes I listen to a song and think, is this really all there is to it? Like of course, Wolfgang Gartner's stuff is extremely complex and intricate, and I respect that. But for some other stuff, I guess I just overthink how hard it was to make.

Does anyone understand what I'm talking about? I'm new to making electronic music, so maybe that's why, but I don't know.

Someone will probably come in here and be like: "Are you kidding me? It's INSANELY hard to do. You have no idea what you're talking about."
and they're probably right...

But is the hardest part creating a catchy melody? the music theory part of it? The mastering/audio quality part? The drums?

[Cracked World Foundation]

I understand what you're asking, but you've also comprehensively answered your own question: compositionally, some stuff is a lot more complex and time consuming to put together than other stuff.

Of course, it's a bit of an unrealistic simplification to say that making any kind of publishable music is easy. If nothing else there's a real skill to mixing and mastering tracks to sound good that is in some respects independent of the technical complexity of the composition. Getting the sounds you want, getting them to sit together neatly, and finishing it all of professionally takes skill and understanding.

Also, inb4: complextro is far less complex than it might sound.

[SoloSaga]

Originally Posted by Cracked World Foundation

Also, inb4: complextro is far less complex than it might sound.

Haha really? I listen to some it and I'm liking "He put that there....what is that.....this would take forever to do..."etc.

Maybe that's just because I'm not really sure how artists do some of the stuff they do...

[Dugg Funnie]

It's all about what you make it, you know? A total noobie might think compressing a drum loop just right is some fucking hardcore shit, but a vet might be able to bang it out in 5 minutes or less. Obviously, talent can have some sort of influence, though, I think talent is of minimal significance in any long-term effort. For me personally, I think the hardest part is arranging a loop into a full fledged song is the most difficult, it varies from person to person, we all have different sticking points. But with understanding all of it becomes "easy" because it's just part of the due process.

[Cracked World Foundation]

Well, full disclosure: I am not a fan of complextro and have no particular interest in it. But a lot of it does sound like a case of "let's just snip up this MIDI clip and move individual notes to different instruments".

I'm sure complextro proponents will tell me that I'm being ignorant, and I'll admit the possibility. But I'm also sure others would diss it in much stronger terms.

[Cracked World Foundation]

Originally Posted by Dugg Funnie

It's all about what you make it, you know? A total noobie might think compressing a drum loop just right is some fucking hardcore shit, but a vet might be able to bang it out in 5 minutes or less... But with understanding all of it becomes "easy" because it's just part of the due process.

That's sort of the point I was trying to make, albeit less successfully. Even when it's effortless, it's because someone's put in the time and learning to get to that point. Analogy: you probably wouldn't say that landing a plane or performing surgery is easy, even though people paid to do those things do them time and time again, quickly, and without error.

[SoloSaga]

Originally Posted by Cracked World Foundation

That's sort of the point I was trying to make, albeit less successfully. Even when it's effortless, it's because someone's put in the time and learning to get to that point. Analogy: you probably wouldn't say that landing a plane or performing surgery is easy, even though people paid to do those things do them time and time again, quickly, and without error.

Ok, that's a good analogy. Here's an example I was thinking of today. I was listening to one of Wolfgang Gartner's tracks "Welcome Back" (not complextro) and the bassline is so catchy. I can't help to think that it's a pretty simple process to make that track. Would you guys agree?

[Cracked World Foundation]

Originally Posted by SoloSaga

Ok, that's a good analogy. Here's and example I was thinking of today. I was listening to one of Wolfgang Gartner's tracks "Welcome Back" (not complextro) and the bassline is so catchy. I can't help to think that's a pretty simple process to make that track. Would you guys agree?

Just quickly listened to a bit of it on YouTube - and yes, nothing complicated going on with that bassline.

EDIT: obviously it's easy to listen to it and say that. Doesn't detract from the creative process of coming up with it, constructing the track, mixing, etc. No criticism intended, basically.

[carlgrace]

It's kind of ironic, but for me personally, the simplest songs I have written were the hardest songs to write. I think to some extent it is because since they are so simple they have to stand on their own merit... every note and sound has to be right or close to right. If you write really complex stuff sometimes it's hard to tell if you did it a particular thing on purpose or was it random. (some of my more complicated songs were a lot of random jamming followed by polishing).

It's also interesting that my simplest songs are also my most popular (in general). I think this is because a simple track has to pass a pretty high bar to be good enough to put out there. Also, people respond to simple chord progressions and baselines... they need to be familiar, but not too familiar. Simple, but not too simple. Surprising, but not too surprising. Small wonder simple songs are hard!

As an example, the song in my signature "Devil's in the Details" is extremely simple, but it was put together following a planned, coherent chord progression, and it has that inscrutable thing called "catchyness". Complex tracks are almost never catchy (there are exceptions).

[SoloSaga]

Originally Posted by carlgrace

It's kind of ironic, but for me personally, the simplest songs I have written were the hardest songs to write. I think to some extent it is because since they are so simple they have to stand on their own merit... every note and sound has to be right or close to right. If you write really complex stuff sometimes it's hard to tell if you did it a particular thing on purpose or was it random. (some of my more complicated songs were a lot of random jamming followed by polishing).

It's also interesting that my simplest songs are also my most popular (in general). I think this is because a simple track has to pass a pretty high bar to be good enough to put out there. Also, people respond to simple chord progressions and baselines... they need to be familiar, but not too familiar. Simple, but not too simple. Surprising, but not too surprising. Small wonder simple songs are hard!

As an example, the song in my signature "Devil's in the Details" is extremely simple, but it was put together following a planned, coherent chord progression, and it has that inscrutable thing called "catchyness". Complex tracks are almost never catchy (there are exceptions).

I agree. I think simple songs in some cases are more catchy, because, to put it simply, they're easier to remember. That's why I like to produce simple songs, start off with a striped down bassline (my favorite) and gradually add to it or change it slightly to be more interesting.

[Dugg Funnie]

Originally Posted by SoloSaga

I agree. I think simple songs in some cases are more catchy, because, to put it simply, they're easier to remember. That's why I like to produce simple songs, start off with a striped down bassline (my favorite) and gradually add to it or change it slightly to be more interesting.

This was posted maybe over a month ago and I have noticed a definite improvement in my melodic catchiness since writing with this concept in mind

Call & Response:

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[SoloSaga]

Originally Posted by Dugg Funnie

This was posted maybe over a month ago and I have noticed a definite improvement in my melodic catchiness since writing with this concept in mind

Call & Response:

Wow, I just started reading that, and I'm already finding it helpful. Thanks for sharing!

[aikario]

I don't think it's simpler. I have the same dilemma; I'll be at school or out and about listening to music, and I'll just think to myself, "..that's really all there is to it? just a kick and a clap with a bassline?" but the second I get back home to my studio, I'm instantly reminded of how not simple it is at all. Something that sounds 'simple' could have spent the producer hours on end to produce, you never know.

[Barry Acid]

I'd say its speculative, depending on how simple or complex the producer wants to make any given piece of electronic music. Example, seeing how almost anything can be defined as music what is hard about having a sequencer play the notes C & D over and over again with a 4OTF kick and open hat....not much. So it can be very simple and of course extremely complex if you know alot about it

[Broton42]

It can be simple. It can be complex. It can be whatever you want it to be.

[Roland_Abuser]

Originally Posted by Dugg Funnie

Call & Response:

I think you`ve just given me the first proper bit of inspiration for a good few months.

Having got to a stage where I now know my way round Live and have learnt all the technical basics for making stuff sound right (at least right enough for the stage I`m at anyway) things have got somewhat stale.

I`ve been starting a new track every morning which 4/5 times ends up just a 2 bar loop before boredom sets in and it`s been annoying me why I can`t seem to get any further.

Anyways, reading that has made me realise what`s lacking (at least at this stage)... Things just aren`t at all catchy; there`s no call and response in my music at all!

When i read that my brain was like `ahhh... that`s why that tune is so good... and that one... and that one... hang on, there`s a pattern here`!

Finally i`ve got somewhere to go once the basics are down which is exactly what has been missing. I`ve found myself just staring at my monitor wondering where next... This is where!

Cheers fella, i`m now a happy chap again

[IamOthello]

What kind of question is this? This question implies all electronic music is the same. Some is simple, some is complex. Electronic music doesn't define a genre, it just defines a medium, in which some genres are complex and some are intricate.

[stem collector]

some of my most complex patterns is just me hitting one note on my sampler over and over haha

[DataCollision]

This is all advice I give to beginners:

I found that most of what I was missing was understanding song structure, like when to have a drum roll or have a fill going in to the next section, and how many measures a section should be. Otherwise, the other aspects like the sounds you're using, or the mix, all that can be changed once you've got a good song going. That's really all an ear training thing and how you use sounds and mix can be a part of your unique sound.

My suggestion is if you want to write a song in a specific genre, listen to loads of songs from that genre. Listen for how many measures there are between pattern changes, etc. If you use software, try downloading a good song written in that software's format and study how the person put it together. When I was starting out, I would take someone else's MOD file and change all the samples to my own, and then edit every pattern until there was a completely new song. That's what helped me learn about structure.

If you want a song to sound "right" to people, you have to have it at least structured correctly. That's my biggest piece of advice. Once that's down, figure out the mix, change sounds if you have to, and then you're good to go.

[stray medicine]

There are ways to half ass every form of music, and there are different ways to make whatever you do extremely complex too, and sometimes really doing the homework and trying to learn as much as you can about it helps a lot.