[Dugg Funnie]

So, recently I've been having ruts of over-analyzing and procrastinating my writing process. I.e. I spend too much time worrying about one specific sound and then lose track of the actual track itself. the advice that I've heard most on this is too just not think about it and write shit tracks regardless.



How do you actually DO that? Like make something that's at least somewhat coherent without thinking about it? Maybe I just need more time, but I can't really seem to totally wrap my head around this concept?


Anybody got tips on firing while aiming?

[Broton42]

Originally Posted by Dugg Funnie

Anybody got tips on firing while aiming?

Just don't cross the streams and you should be good.

[Lug]

I think the making of a track goes in two steps : first the structure of the track, the different parts and how they're gonna come together ; second the actual production.
You handle both ends so it may be harder for you to stick to one position at the time. But try to catch on the idea that you can change all the sounds and think of all the technical aspects after you have the whole track laid down - it's even going to make more sense.

I'm not sure that's what you're talking about, though

[lebeux]

You take your shit sounds and organize them into a shit arrangement. Such as, boring intro/cheesy verse/lame chorus/shittier verse/pointless bridge/etc. Forces you to work on structure and development.

[Br/ainfu+ked]

Originally Posted by Broton42

Just don't cross the streams and you should be good.

fuck that i'll cross streams if I want to, perhaps I'll have a nice shit too

[Dugg Funnie]

Originally Posted by lebeux

You take your shit sounds and organize them into a shit arrangement. Such as, boring intro/cheesy verse/lame chorus/shittier verse/pointless bridge/etc. Forces you to work on structure and development.

But my sounds are SOOOO GOOODD! Haha, ya maybe I'm just procrastinating. Who knows, thanks for the responses homies.


Is DNA considered crossing the streams?

[bbb]

You could try writing with midi and a piano vst. layer it together. I like piano sounds a lot though.

[relic]

If you are talking sound design versus arrangement, I've found the only way to get a good tune written is to pretty much ignore sound design and just write the tune.

[JamestonThieves]

If you do not like a part, but cannot change it, change what is around it or use it at a different part of the song. Often I try to force parts, but if I just let the rest of the song carry it, it is not even necessary.

[Numerical]

Originally Posted by Dugg Funnie

How do you actually DO that? Like make something that's at least somewhat coherent without thinking about it?

I can't say that I'm able to do this with any consistency, but what I find that helps is to take something you're having trouble with, like the lead or bass melody, and write something similar to that, changing the phrasing and maybe a note here and there, put it into the song and see how it fits at the end of what you have. Sometimes it'll help with thinking of new patterns and intervals. Especially with the metal stuff I do, I really think what gets me off track many times is trying to make up something completely different than what's before it, rather than expanding on what you have.

[CallAndResponse]

Depends what type of music you are making because you can compose out of your head or you can compose by tweaking and fiddling with things over and over again until you get a cool melody.
If you are making a genre with many sounds all going crazy then it will most likely always sound shit and cheesy at the beginning. You need to just work on it over and over again and keep evolving/tweaking it until it grows into a beast. The problem with this is that you often make something and you don't want to make too many changes in case you lose it. That is when I just end up making about 30 different project files so I can always go back if I have tweaked something too far and actually ended up ruining it.

[Hakuin]

Originally Posted by Dugg Funnie

But my sounds are SOOOO GOOODD!

I figure that you are probably having more trouble with arrangements then? Or is it placing those sounds together?

I tend to compose various levels of percussion first, so that I can several distinct sections to arrange. Then depending on the genre or the overall intention, I add pads followed by melody and lead.

When I get bogged down in a track though (and this happens suddenly sometimes)
1.I just move to another song/ set of patches.
2. I practice a live set and just jam (but I am running a live PA set up so, it is an option)

Good luck

[Glazed Ham Sandwich please?]

write as much shit as you can and eventually some of it won't be shit :U

also if you can't write songs and just end up tweaking sounds, don't do any sound design until you've arranged a while song. write notes and junk on what you want where, approximate it, move on, and design the final versions of each sound after the arrangement is mostly done.

[Son of Akira]

Originally Posted by ghyt wembpang

write as much shit as you can and eventually some of it won't be shit :U

also if you can't write songs and just end up tweaking sounds, don't do any sound design until you've arranged a while song. write notes and junk on what you want where, approximate it, move on, and design the final versions of each sound after the arrangement is mostly done.

Originally Posted by relic

If you are talking sound design versus arrangement, I've found the only way to get a good tune written is to pretty much ignore sound design and just write the tune.

This is what I usually naturally do, up to a point where the track is 'almost finished' and then go back and forth between the design and the arrangement.
I don't think you're really in a rut, as in it's not bad to hyper-focus on one aspect of arrangement or design. Unless you're on a deadline I don't see a downside to this, and I'd say you're already in the right mindset of treating the arrangement and design as separate entities. Obviously they're going to be linked to various degrees in the end but naturally having them fall into separate boxes is an essential part of the creative process.

[Vlantis]

I write every part of a track, and I mean EVERY PART, using the same square wave synth. Only after the song is finished structurally do I start messing with sounds.

[Hakuin]

Originally Posted by Vlantis

I write every part of a track, and I mean EVERY PART, using the same square wave synth. Only after the song is finished structurally do I start messing with sounds.

This is an interesting approach! I couldn't imagine doing it myself though.
I suppose synthesize sounds from those squares and replace them occasionally? Or do you use them strictly as placeholders?

[ethanede]

Originally Posted by Vlantis

I write every part of a track, and I mean EVERY PART, using the same square wave synth. Only after the song is finished structurally do I start messing with sounds.

Lots of great tips in here, thanks for sharing.

I think Vlantis hit me with his comment, which to me meant getting the arrangement done before doing anything else. I think I've been focusing on emulating techniques or something, so I suppose the sound design part of it, at the expense of a cohesive arrangement. For example, leaving a part it just because I like it even though it doesn't really take the song where it needs is causing an arrangement problems and is disrupting the flow of the song.

For me, I'd be inclined to do this with a piano. Vlantis, do you manipulate the sound at all, like play with the amp envelope for a pad, or to do a build or something? Or the same EXACT sound for all parts?

Cheers,

Ethan

[bbb]

Originally Posted by Vlantis

I write every part of a track, and I mean EVERY PART, using the same square wave synth. Only after the song is finished structurally do I start messing with sounds.

That's awesome dude. Sometimes, I'll take a drum pattern and write a bunch of stuff, well play a lot of stuff on the same piano(vst). Then resynth it, layer etc. My thoughts are if it sounds good note wise in the same instrument, it will sound good being taken through all the resynthing. Of course some stuff can affect those but the foundation is there.

Though sometimes, I just leave it in piano or classical instruments because I fucking love them, even if I suck balls at playing.


Quick question, you said the same square wave synth. Do you use the same base square wave sound in multiple tracks to lay the foundation?

Thanks for the info as well dude. Still waiting on your album you talked about in your interview. =D

[Vlantis]

Originally Posted by Hakuin

This is an interesting approach! I couldn't imagine doing it myself though.
I suppose synthesize sounds from those squares and replace them occasionally? Or do you use them strictly as placeholders?

I only use them as placeholders (sometimes I replace them with something equally "chiptune-ish, though).

Originally Posted by ethanede

Vlantis, do you manipulate the sound at all, like play with the amp envelope for a pad, or to do a build or something? Or the same EXACT sound for all parts?

Same exact sound. It's actually the called 2x2 in the Ableton 7 Legacy simpler pack.

Keep in mind that my songs feature melody instead of sound design, and they're pretty much structured as verse/chorus/verse type things, so it's pretty easy.

Originally Posted by Bx3

Quick question, you said the same square wave synth. Do you use the same base square wave sound in multiple tracks to lay the foundation?

Thanks for the info as well dude. Still waiting on your album you talked about in your interview. =D

Yeah. I usually start with the mid-range melody, then another layer for the bass, then another layer for the counter melody, and then another layer for extra stuff. Once I get the structure down, I get the sounds how I want them and start filling out the track further using the same 2x2 patch I mentioned above (and replace it later).

And I'm not sure what album you're talking about (or which interview)! I've "retired" since doing that interview and only concentrating on live shows (still writing here and there, but only for live). I do have a remastered EP coming out on November 5th, if that's what you're talking about.

[TL072]

Originally Posted by Dugg Funnie

the advice that I've heard most on this is too just not think about it and write shit tracks regardless.

Another perspective to add to the other sensible things people have to say: keep making shit. Shitty is pretty.

Here are two tutorials, sent to me by a friend (on how to make dirty funk records). Friend said that he reads them when ever he thinks he is taking his music making too seriously.

Anatomy of a Heavy Funk 45 - pt 1
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Anatomy of a Heavy Funk 45 - pt 2
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They are a good read, good ideas. Hope you enjoy.