[henryspencer]

Why is it that some artists can get away with having a chord progression that runs the whole song pretty much and it seems to loop over and over and still maintain interest. Heres a few examples:

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Yet if you take other chord progressions like you hear in rock music with singing for instance you could never get away with this so smoothly. For example if an electornic artists just looped the riff from pink floyds money or Tools' 46 and2

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it would get boring on its own and you would need singing to keep it interesting?? Is there some theorietical reason as to why foour tet, aphex and boards of canada type of instrumental stuff stays so interesting over repeated loops, I dont know anything about theory myself but does it have to do with how these chord progressions revolve or something like that? I have just noticed that I am too stuck in the rock mentality and my chord progressions dont seem to sustain that interest that the mentioned songs at the top do. Please help me out here theory people!

[ghyt wembpang]

Because it doesn't stay exactly the same the whole way through. there is variation. different instruments. changes in tone. changes in intensity.

[Owen De-Vice]

what the other guy, plus some sounds and notes just sound good

[henryspencer]

Ok I get that part but isnt there something else about these specific types of chord progressions, where its almost as if they end with a certain chord that leads into the beginning chord or something like that?

[Artifiseer]

Well, there's that too. A good chord progression will naturally sound better looped than some random chords that only sort-of go together. That's why when I'm trying to piece together a chord progression, I work all in MIDI and just let it loop over and over while I tweak the chords until the progression flows how I want it too, and doesn't sound awkward when looped. If, after working on the track for a few hours, I'm already sick of the chords, I scrap them and try a new progression.

[henryspencer]

Originally Posted by Artifiseer

Well, there's that too. A good chord progression will naturally sound better looped than some random chords that only sort-of go together. That's why when I'm trying to piece together a chord progression, I work all in MIDI and just let it loop over and over while I tweak the chords until the progression flows how I want it too, and doesn't sound awkward when looped. If, after working on the track for a few hours, I'm already sick of the chords, I scrap them and try a new progression.

Thats actually a really good tip about midi! I suppose in the case of four tet who chops audio hes doing something similar to add little variations. Thanks.

[ghyt wembpang]

i wrote this whole analysis of tension and resolve in music and an analysis of 46 and 2 as a practical example last night, and then didn't notice my internet dropped before I submitted it and lost the whole thing. :I

[henryspencer]

Originally Posted by ghyt wembpang

i wrote this whole analysis of tension and resolve in music and an analysis of 46 and 2 as a practical example last night, and then didn't notice my internet dropped before I submitted it and lost the whole thing. :I

Thats horrible!
I would have loved to have read that provided that you did not use an overabundance of musical terms which I would not have understood.... Sounds interesting though, Ive always loved that song.

[SpinVector]

Originally Posted by henryspencer

where its almost as if they end with a certain chord that leads into the beginning chord or something like that?

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This may be of help. A cadence basically an interval between two notes or chords that gives different feelings to the end of a phrase of music. Perhaps the most important interval in a melody is the last one in the phrase.

THe thing is, with looping riffs, study of cadences wont get you very far, as the end of a phrase is usually also the start of that same phrase. One approach is to avoid the root note all together in the beginning or end of a phase. By placing a V-I interval somewhere in the middle you get the resolution (important for the listener so he can find the tonal centre), but without the sense of "ok this is complete".

The general idea is to have at least one melodic part that tells the listener "ok this is what key we're in, and here where we land home", but then have other melodic parts that break the rules and do something that obfuscates this idea of a melodic full stop.

You know when you're writing a drum beat and you're working on a percussion loop on top of a main beat, and you shift the pattern say 3 16ths to the left and suddenly the rhythm has more movement and flow to it. You're playing with the idea of where things start and finish relative to eachother. If you can construct your melodies with this kind of mindset you can create some awesome riffs.

Also, it's very common to break up riffs into 2 sections. one is repeated a number of times, then a variation with a different tonal centre is introduced to indicate the completion of a larger section. For example, you could have a 2 bar riff that repeats 3 times, then for the last two bars, the variation is introduced. These variations often feel unresolved so using the scale notes II, III, VI, VII (basically avoiding fifths and root notes) can be effective.

[AsylumSeaker]

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One riff, variegated over 60 minutes. Epic.

See, the epicenter of the record is the song “Dopesmoker”. This colossal compositional monster that became Sleep’s Holy Grail and –after lots of bitterness and rejection- their undoing. So, what one has to always have in mind is that this is not a three-gajillion-different-parts-glued-together-and-presented-as-a-whole song, but a proper, one-riff, one-hour-and-some-more song (henceforth the riff shall be called the Riff).
The Riff is not exactly the same throughout the whole of the song, but its basics are so…, well, so steady, as if the four to five power chords composing it were written in unbreakable granite, with one sole Commandment above them: “Thou shall not use any other chord, except those decreed as Proper and True for the Riff”. So, yeah, there are some changes over time, but those work only to underline the power and the glory of the Riff. And those who do not bow down and offer sacrifice, shall be smote by it.
It takes the band three minutes to establish the Riff, but when it does, when the drums come in… pure fucking bliss. And, while the track is pretty slow, Chris Hakius’ super-busy drumwork (I hereby pronounce him as the Right Royal Highness of Banging All Kinds of Shit out of His Toms and Cymbals and Stuff) gives it a constant sense of forward movement, of evolution, of change, even if the guitar-bass snarling schemata are as unchanging as fucking eternity.

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[Lug]

You know, a lot of people say electronic music is repetitive. And it couldn't be less true than in that afx track you posted. Check it out it really is the two same chords over 6 minutes.
It's just that it's not the focus point of the music ; in this track it's clearly the rhythm and a bit of effects and tweaks.

You can't compare "chorus/verse" kind of songs to the "building up" kind.

Post-rock doesn't work with "chorus/verses". Same riff played through some ten to twenty minutes and just building up in intensity

[neyus]

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First few times listening to this song i did not realize that the bassists NEVER changed his pattern from the beginning and till the end of the song. It works because the bass isnt the main attraction but rather its gives the rest of the element the drive and open doors to do whatever they want as the song progresses. If everything else doesnt change drastically or stays the same the song would have less dynamic and taste.

[Focalized]

This has a very thin line. Look at Boards Of Canada tracks. Almost the same thing the whole track sometimes but they manage to make it work. Sometimes you focus on the repeated phrase and get bored. Sometimes you get lost in it.

Good example is Amo Bishop Roden. Sometimes I get lost in that track sometimes it annoys the hell out of me.

[Son of Akira]

My internet is being finicky so I haven't listened to all the audio here, but...

You can get away with non-traditional resolutions or non-resolutions being looped (that is, no I-V and I-IV) for much much longer than traditional resolutions. Anecdotally I'd say the most common are the two-chord progressions of I-vi-I-vi... and i-VI-i-VI... because these have popped up in many different pieces in many different genres (just to name the first that popped in my head Miles Davis has a famous track) over the last century. Basically, any defined tonic that doesn't touch a dominant or subdominant will explore the same concept as they are all derived from the idea that the anti-resolution is powerful as it subverts expectations, even a remarkably simple two-chord progression like the above or a i-VII-i-VII... or I-iii-I-iii... etc.
A similar concept is a progression like i-III-VII-I (or I-VII-III, or the major variation of I-iii-vi) where if the minor tonic is defined strongly through melody you get a sort of relative major sub-resolution with the option of simply but non-traditionally shifting between the two tonalites if so desired.

[Focalized]

I like chord progressions where there seems to be no resolution. I know no the technical terms if any for such things.

[AsylumSeaker]

Originally Posted by Focalized

I like chord progressions where there seems to be no resolution. I know no the technical terms if any for such things.

Unresolved?

[Son of Akira]

Originally Posted by AsylumSeaker

Unresolved?

Lol, yeah I was thinking about it and I don't think there's an agreed upon universal term for non-resolved progressions or non-traditionally-resolved progressions. I think each type of progression just has it's own name ( like [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
etc)

[Focalized]

I'm thinking of a chord progression where the expected next chord is never really used. Don't how to explain this.

Really though some melodies over a two note bass line seem to do this. There's a circular feeling that can be applied to the phrase that feels just, good and new over the length of it all.

[Lug]

Music without tension/resolution is called Modal music, it's really about geting lost in the atmosphere (colour) of the "mode" and just build melodically rather than harmonically

Coltrane changes are all about tension/resolution ! It's a bit of a mindfuck but it is tonal

[Focalized]

Jazz it pretty good.....