[fluent2332]

Ok, so my question is this. Let's say I'm doing a basic C major progression of 1-5-4. Can I use ANY chord in existence for those notes as long as the root is correct? So for example, 1-5-4, C-G-F...can I use a Csus4, Gmin7 and an Fmaj9? Will it still sound good?

Now the next part of my question. Other than playing the notes in the chords themselves, how do I know what will sound pleasing to the ear to play over top of these chords? Let's say for a bassline, or a solo. I know you can play the actual chord notes themselves, but what about the other notes? Is there some way to know what will sound good? Do scales matter in this regard? I use my ear to hear what sounds good for the most part, and it works for me, but I think it would be much more efficient and open up new avenues for my music if I could know ahead of time what is going to sound right with my chord progressions...

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[Ogrilla]

Well regarding 1 5 4 those are the bass notes basically in respect to the key that your song is in... so some chords will not fit in your key.... for example C major allows C D E F G A B C obviosuly, so a Cmin with C (root), E♭ (minor third) and G (perfect fifth) wouldn't fit into the key because of the E♭...


Hope that helps or answers what your talking about. I guess your answer then is no, not any chord with the correct root works.

PS: I guess you could avoid this by having a scale correct-er in your DAW like ableton live does, where it will just take the off notes and switch it to the closest one in the key... But that wont really give you the real chord you entered.

[gmabbit]

I find it hard to talk about this stuff, I'll do my best.

Chords do not necessarily fit into the scale of the song. If you can make an aesthetically pleasing chord progression, you can make a song out of it. Technically it changes the scale, but in music you often have a note that leaves the scale as this has a greater emotional impact. Using interesting chords will give the scale a more complex structure, which narrows down the options of what notes work when. Playing with differing new parts will highlight a different clashing note each time.

The best way to know if notes will work with each other is trial and error - do you have a midi keyboard? I'm a self-taught guitarist and I've found that comes with experience. Early on I found it easier to think of chords as several instantaneous melodies before I learned to feel it more.

You can also fit to a key by changing the root notes of your chords. You can write basslines that do not use the root notes by playing a note a corresponding interval from the root each time. If one does not work, try using or matching it to a different note in the chord, or using the previous or next chords part. Some of the strangest music I know how to play has ordinary major or minor chords, and in the progression you just wouldn't know.

[fluent2332]

Both those replies are helpful. Thanks.

I have trouble building proper chord progressions. I usually just experiment within a scale and hope I find something that sounds interesting. One thing I like about scales, is that if you know a scale, all you have to do is push the keys within that scale in a chord-like pattern, and something is going to happen. String a few chords together with that technique and I'm good to go . I do wish I had more of a grasp on the theory though. It's kind of like swinging at a pinata while blindfolded. It would be much easier to hit if I wasn't wearing a blindfold . Anyway, thanks for the help.

[gmabbit]

Originally Posted by fluent2332

Both those replies are helpful. Thanks. I do wish I had more of a grasp on the theory though.

You've got a great approach there, imo. Chord theory can be a very confusing topic. Chords are literally just more than one note being played at the same time, and the relationship of one note to another is either rising, falling, or staying the same. Useless advice I know, but all you need is practice.

For something more useful, in a major or minor scale you're probably going to use Major, Minor and Diminished chords *- and the 7th of each of those chords will often be interchangeable. To add a part that isn't the root, you can almost always use the note 5 half steps down from your root note. A friend once told me that this is usually where trumpets are pitched in relation to the orchestra in classical music.

Good luck.

* I'll send you a link in PM with more details.

[Joe Oso Dopke]

You need to learn how chords are built from scales.
Take your c major scale
c d e f g a b c d e f g a b c d e f g a b c etc.
the way most people go and make their chords is by simply using a major chord, which's formula is the root, the 3rd of the scale, and the 5th. so C major would be C E G
Going up the scale, you get
C E G (c major)
D F A (d minor)
E G B (e minor)
F A C (f major)
G B D (g major)
A C E (a minor)
B D F (B diminished)

That's how you basically go about choosing your chords.
Go study up on your theory to learn more.

[fluent2332]

Thanks for the tips. I think I have a better grasp of it now. Not perfect but I'm getting there. I did notice through experimentation that chord progressions can really be built from any chords you want, not necessarily only the chords in a scale. I think it's important to know scales and proper progressions and all that but it's also very important to experiment. The two go hand in hand really. I'm starting to get it though, thanks again for the responses.

[Kook]

There r many different scales. U r approaching it from classical perspective in sense of c natural. U can approach c natural from jazz scale, blues scale, middle eastern, bhajan modals or common classical natural. Then u can approach c note in a minor sense and go off on another tangent of possibilities. Best musician I'd say doesnt think about it but has spoke in all languages before inventing his own? Any note can be combined with c natural and sound good with a seventh or a ninth spliced in.

[Winnaz]

Scales, chords and modes are all major head issues for the aspiring composer - I never got far enough with music theory to get into modes in much great depth. These days I just apply a small bit of science and the rest is just what sounds pleasant. And as far as the scale corrector devices, they are handy for the inexperienced, but as you progress you might find that there is a note missing from the corrected scale that you want. You can either edit the scale device - or just ditch in favour of your ears.

[fluent2332]

Thanks again for the responses. I agree, I use a little bit of a science, and a lot of what sounds pleasant to me. Seems to work out well for the most part, but leaves me a bit stumped as to what would sound good "next". Instead of having some sure-fire chord progression to evolve the song into, I have to just experiment and see what sounds good. Works for me though.

[perezslime]

As has been said-at the end of the day what sounds best to you is all that matters... problem is without learning all the possibilities your ear doesnt get used to some of the stranger possibilities...

Best thing i could advise would be to get a copy of the "The AB Guide to Music Theory" vol 1 and 2. It starts off really basic but by the time you've got to the end of book two you'll be flyin.... i'm sure there are plenty of equivalent books out there but these are the ones I used n i always thought they were well written and easy to follow

As for what notes to play over chords an oversimplification would go something like - notes in the chord always work but can sound a bit boring, notes in the scale but not in the chord will provide a bit of dissonance, notes not in the scale will generally provide a lot of dissonance....

One other possibility which I dont think has been mentioned is just stealing/adapting ideas from other songs... you'll start to get more of an idea for thing you like and dont like very quickly when ya start lookin at the progressions in other songs that you like

[Capo]

its entirely possible to analyze each chord so theres a scale that works for them, for example a mixolydian mode always works well with a 13th chord, mostly i just do my best to try and hear what would sound nice as im not the best at quickly analyzing and playing.

if you want to analyze your chords youre going to need some theory training in modes aswell as harmonic and melodic scales, its definitely worth it, as broadening your musical options can never hurt

[Arnage]

Scales are fantastic for everything, only problem is that often if for example, you want a Spanish sound and opt for the c Phyrgian Dominant, the C# will clash if you have a D in the progression.

Countless times I have written a melody over chords, and one note clashes, throwing the whole feel of the song down the drain.

I think learn your Major, Minor scales, along with your harmonic minor, and eventually the modes. Understanding scale voicing is a pain in the A$$.