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Old 03-09-2013, 04:21 AM   #1
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those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

I keep hearing these chords in jungle and garage tunes like machinedrum and disclosure that have this off or dissonant sound and are jazzy in a way. Are these reflective of these artists great knowledge in theory or are they doing something else like tuning the oscelators on a 3 osc synth differently? Any help here on how I can make these or learn how to add these into my arsenal would be great!
Heres examples:



(heard especially in the middle section 2:10)

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Old 03-09-2013, 07:34 AM   #2
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

In garage and jungle it's also a distinct possibility that they sampled them from somewhere else. A lot of times chords in those types of songs are sampled and the repitching is what gives them an "off"sounding quality. Not sure if that's the case here, but it's something to consider.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:02 AM   #3
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

That's basically the same tape effect that BoC uses to make the sounds detune a bit.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:11 AM   #4
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

I don't think the chords sound like anything too fancy, jazzy maybe, but nothing an amateur couldn't stumble on with a few fingers. Most modern synths have a few knobs that will make stuff sound weird like that (introduce non-harmonic tones in varying amounts.) I'm only really familiar with FL stuff, but look for unison settings, detune, grittiness, prism etc.

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Old 03-09-2013, 09:37 AM   #5
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

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Originally Posted by penguinoid View Post
A lot of times chords in those types of songs are sampled and the repitching is what gives them an "off"sounding quality.
In the first track at least it sounds like this was done... (can't listen to the second one in Germany because of copyright shit). If you sample a chord, put it into a sampler and play it at different pitches you can get this effect because you are basically moving the chord shape around into places where it doesn't really belong harmonically...

Example: You take a major chord and plav it with it's root as all of the notes i na chosen key (let's the key is say C major). So lets say you sample a simple major triad (C major in this case). As soon as you repitch it to D, E or A you are playing a major chord where you should be playing a minor chord (if you are going to stay within the key) so this will sound weird a bit off...

So by simply moving chord shapes around you will get off key sounds...

If anyone with a better music theory knowledge disagrees feel free to correct me or explain it better

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Old 03-09-2013, 01:30 PM   #6
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

^ well if you never actually install a key it's more of a key change than a offkey moment imo. But it does challenge the "standard harmony".

I listened to the tunes and didn't find anything dissonant or anything ...I'd say it's more in the detuned oscillators (ever so slightly) than the chord.

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Old 03-09-2013, 07:11 PM   #7
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

Thanks folks. The thing I. Hearing here is that these are not just basic triad maj or min chords there's other noted added in and I do t know what these chords . Are they 7 th 9 th or suspended gords by chance?
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:16 PM   #8
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

For this effect people use minor 7ths a lot. Definitely try other stuff too though

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:33 AM   #9
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryspencer View Post
Thanks folks. The thing I. Hearing here is that these are not just basic triad maj or min chords there's other noted added in and I do t know what these chords . Are they 7 th 9 th or suspended gords by chance?
I'm not at a piano so this might not be right

At the core, Boiling sounds like:
F#m | C#m | B
synth melody goes from F# to E to F# and sometimes there's an A there
I am not good at discerning individual synth notes but it may be more like
F#m7 | C#m7 (or maybe some Amaj7) | Bmaj7

I haven't heard Eyesdontlie before but at a quick listen it sounds like (middle section with the piano/vocal synth)
C | Am7 | Eb | Bb | Cm7 | G | Eb | Bb

You might be able to get away with a maj7 or 9 or #11 in that Eb
or a maj7 in the Bb

As far as off-sounding goes I think that has more to do with the instrumentation (synths) than the notes. I guess it might depend on how you define off-sounding.

The swells in Boiling sound like extended attacks to me, maybe a low pass filter upwards sweep, I'm probably oversimplifying it though. I think the vocal "aaah" sound in Eyesdontlie is worth listening to again, it's a very rich sound

Last edited by frajen; 04-09-2013 at 12:50 AM..
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:20 AM   #10
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

Quote:
Originally Posted by frajen View Post
I'm not at a piano so this might not be right

At the core, Boiling sounds like:
F#m | C#m | B
synth melody goes from F# to E to F# and sometimes there's an A there
I am not good at discerning individual synth notes but it may be more like
F#m7 | C#m7 (or maybe some Amaj7) | Bmaj7

I haven't heard Eyesdontlie before but at a quick listen it sounds like (middle section with the piano/vocal synth)
C | Am7 | Eb | Bb | Cm7 | G | Eb | Bb

You might be able to get away with a maj7 or 9 or #11 in that Eb
or a maj7 in the Bb

As far as off-sounding goes I think that has more to do with the instrumentation (synths) than the notes. I guess it might depend on how you define off-sounding.

The swells in Boiling sound like extended attacks to me, maybe a low pass filter upwards sweep, I'm probably oversimplifying it though. I think the vocal "aaah" sound in Eyesdontlie is worth listening to again, it's a very rich sound
You have a great ear to figure that out and not be at a piano? Howd you do that?

Also what key would eyesdont lie be in then if you dont mind?

Thanks again
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:34 PM   #11
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

I have ableton running on my laptop so I can "play" a piano by using home row keys plus a few more (on a MIDI channel). But it's not like actually playing a piano, and it's hard to play more than like 2 or 3 notes at a time

During that section I wouldn't think of eyesdontlie as being in a key. If I had to answer it would be between C major and Bb major.

But from a soloist perspective I might group the bars like

C | Am7 |
C major/A minor notes (white keys), tendency towards Cmaj7 and Am11

Eb | Bb
C Dorian (Bb major)

Cm7 |
Bb major or Ab major (C natural minor)

G |
G7 (Mixolydian if you like) or G7 augmented

Eb |
C (natural) minor or C Dorian. The inclusion of the A can lead into the Bb easier

Bb |
Bb major (I would probably use Bb maj7 as it goes well into Cmaj7)

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Old 05-09-2013, 09:40 PM   #12
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

Quote:
Originally Posted by frajen View Post
I have ableton running on my laptop so I can "play" a piano by using home row keys plus a few more (on a MIDI channel). But it's not like actually playing a piano, and it's hard to play more than like 2 or 3 notes at a time

During that section I wouldn't think of eyesdontlie as being in a key. If I had to answer it would be between C major and Bb major.

But from a soloist perspective I might group the bars like

C | Am7 |
C major/A minor notes (white keys), tendency towards Cmaj7 and Am11

Eb | Bb
C Dorian (Bb major)

Cm7 |
Bb major or Ab major (C natural minor)

G |
G7 (Mixolydian if you like) or G7 augmented

Eb |
C (natural) minor or C Dorian. The inclusion of the A can lead into the Bb easier

Bb |
Bb major (I would probably use Bb maj7 as it goes well into Cmaj7)

cheers

Thanks but this is really touching on a problem I have been having as can be seen on numerous threads I have started

Allot of these chords progressions I am loving such as this are not in a "key" per say, boards of canada does this allot also. Yet they work so well. The chords here in eyesdontlie seem to work well and yet do not sound like typical chords progression which are often the 1st 7th and 6ths chords in a key (very common in most pop and electronic stuff). So, I must ask, how does one go about writing a chords progression like this? Do you basically just mash around keys until it sounds good or are there any basic rules related to scales or keys one could follow?

Thanks again
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:04 PM   #13
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryspencer View Post
Thanks but this is really touching on a problem I have been having as can be seen on numerous threads I have started

Allot of these chords progressions I am loving such as this are not in a "key" per say, boards of canada does this allot also. Yet they work so well. The chords here in eyesdontlie seem to work well and yet do not sound like typical chords progression which are often the 1st 7th and 6ths chords in a key (very common in most pop and electronic stuff). So, I must ask, how does one go about writing a chords progression like this? Do you basically just mash around keys until it sounds good or are there any basic rules related to scales or keys one could follow?

Thanks again
Take a reading on borrowed chords. A borrowed chord is taken from a parallel key. But fact is most musicians do it without knowing the theory of borrowed chords, actually it may not even be a borrowed chord. Just play what fits, you may interpret as a key change or whatever. If it sounds good it does.
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Old 24-10-2013, 11:30 PM   #14
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwatermusic View Post
Take a reading on borrowed chords. A borrowed chord is taken from a parallel key. But fact is most musicians do it without knowing the theory of borrowed chords, actually it may not even be a borrowed chord. Just play what fits, you may interpret as a key change or whatever. If it sounds good it does.
Right.

Borrowed chords, or mode mixture, can be a great way to surprise listeners by playing with their expectation.

Also tonicization (sp?) and modulations can be great for setting up transitions/new sections ideas.

So yes there are a "rules", but it gets pretty deep once you start talkinga bout chromatic harmony.

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Old 25-10-2013, 04:33 AM   #15
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

music is terrible..

yes I believe it is a 3 osc synth with one neutral note and the others pitched up or down to play a chord. There are a lot of vsti-synths with presets set to this by default..

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Old 25-10-2013, 04:37 AM   #16
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Re: those off sounding chords in garage and jungle tunes

Its a lot less complicated than most people think. Its called chord planning, or parallel harmony. Take 5 minutes and read this article/ watch the video and realize how much you have been over thinking it!

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